Car Will Not Start After TOB Replacement

[LowKeySlow]

Alright, I'm going to jump right into this. Sorry if I don't explain everything mechanically correct, I'm just a young salesman who likes to work on cars in my downtime. Over the weekend I replaced my TOB. Dropped the transmission, removed old clutch fork, and TOB. reinstalled transmission. Now my car will no start (doesn't crank, only rapidly clicks which indicates a lack of power to the starter).

Here are where the problems come in. I must've been excited to get my car assembled as quickly as possible, and I didn't realize that my starter connections were touching, and I shorted my starter. No big deal I was kinda upset that I wasted 300$ for nothing, but I quickly replaced it.

using a multimeter I ensured that the starter is getting more than enough power (90 AMPS) and wasn't shorting. the connection from the battery terminal to the starter is getting enough power which eliminated that possibility. I thought that somehow the short damaged the battery. No big deal, so I went to AutoZone replaced the battery. still won't start. fuses on the battery terminal are not blown. No crank only clicks. I then thought that the starter switch could be shorted. I took a 12V wire to bypass the starter switch, still clicked. next, I checked the following fuses with a multimeter: Starter and ignition (both indicate they're fine). maybe the starter isn't lining up with the flywheel properly? I really don't understand how that would be an issue if I never touched the flywheel during the TOB replacement.


I was at a loss (still am) for any other ideas on what could be causing the issues. I thought maybe I didn't install the transmission properly. a buddy of mine suggested using a wrench to see if the crankshaft spins while in gear and it doesn't, and it spins freely while in neutral (as it should right?).

lastly, I've checked all of my ground for the battery, starter, and transmission and they're all fine. if anyone else has any other suggestions please reach out, I'm willing to try anything at this point. before I started this process I never had an issue with starting the car. I've been avoiding dropping the transmission again, but if I have to I will.

[Opie]

Pics of starter in car, connections, etc...seems like something is not connected, or connected incorrectly. Is the ground strap attached to the lower starter to trans mounting bolt?

[LowKeySlow]

once I get back to my garage I can get more photos.

[Grady]

Originally Posted by LowKeySlow

Alright, I'm going to jump right into this. Sorry if I don't explain everything mechanically correct, I'm just a young salesman who likes to work on cars in my downtime. Over the weekend I replaced my TOB. Dropped the transmission, removed old clutch fork, and TOB. reinstalled transmission. Now my car will no start (doesn't crank, only rapidly clicks which indicates a lack of power to the starter).

Here are where the problems come in. I must've been excited to get my car assembled as quickly as possible, and I didn't realize that my starter connections were touching, and I shorted my starter. No big deal I was kinda upset that I wasted 300$ for nothing, but I quickly replaced it.

using a multimeter I ensured that the starter is getting more than enough power (90 AMPS) and wasn't shorting. the connection from the battery terminal to the starter is getting enough power which eliminated that possibility. I thought that somehow the short damaged the battery. No big deal, so I went to AutoZone replaced the battery. still won't start. fuses on the battery terminal are not blown. No crank only clicks. I then thought that the starter switch could be shorted. I took a 12V wire to bypass the starter switch, still clicked. next, I checked the following fuses with a multimeter: Starter and ignition (both indicate they're fine). maybe the starter isn't lining up with the flywheel properly? I really don't understand how that would be an issue if I never touched the flywheel during the TOB replacement.


I was at a loss (still am) for any other ideas on what could be causing the issues. I thought maybe I didn't install the transmission properly. a buddy of mine suggested using a wrench to see if the crankshaft spins while in gear and it doesn't, and it spins freely while in neutral (as it should right?).

lastly, I've checked all of my ground for the battery, starter, and transmission and they're all fine. if anyone else has any other suggestions please reach out, I'm willing to try anything at this point. before I started this process I never had an issue with starting the car. I've been avoiding dropping the transmission again, but if I have to I will.

I have some questions to clarify.



When you say you shorted your starter. This is not possible the starter does not make any power. Can you expand on this to further clarify what happened.



You also say you used a multi meter and read 90 amps. A standard multi meter can not read that much current. Do you measure that with a current clamp?

[LowKeySlow]

sorry, I should've specified the solenoid on the starter shorted.

we measured in DC and did some math to determine the amperage flow. I'm not the best with electronics so my body who is an engineer did all of the measurements and equations. when we all meet up tonight I can get more specific with the numbers.

[LimitedSlip]

Originally Posted by LowKeySlow

We measured in DC and did some math to determine the amperage flow.

Was this calculation to determine how much current *might be available* or how much was *actually being drawn* with the solenoid engaged?

What in a (non-hybrid/electric) vehicle is capable of causing a 90 Amp current draw? I can only come up with three things:

1. A starter motor.
2. A large stereo power amp.
3. A dead short to ground (probably in the starter circuit) that should blow one or more large fuses.

If the starter solenoid is clicking then the various ignition/starter control circuits have some idea what to do and are probably okay.

When the starter solenoid clicks and if 12 volts is actually supplied to the starter it should spin (assuming a healthy battery).

Is it possible the the starter motor is somehow jammed (maybe internally) or electrically faulty and can't spin? To clarify, the $300 was to replace the starter, correct? And something is drawing 90 Amps? Might be good to verify this value by measurement rather then calculation.

You said the engine crankshaft can be turned over manually with the transmission in neutral, correct?

[LowKeySlow]

yes, the starter and the starter solenoid were replaced, and yeah crankshaft can be turned over while in neutral. also, the battery is brand new like two days old (replaced it when i shorted the starter)

We took the starter out but left it connected and attempted to start the car, and the starter motor spun.

this is from my buddy: "I did not measure the current flow while it was being jumped. but i did see a huge amount of voltage sag while you were trying to start it ( drop from ~13.7 volts to ~10.5 volts) which means that a large current was being placed on the battery by the starter."

[LimitedSlip]

Originally Posted by LowKeySlow

We took the starter out but left it connected and attempted to start the car, and the starter motor spun.

Okay, so the starter motor spins with no load but can't turn over an engine that can be manually spun.

1. Faulty replacement starter.
2. Corroded battery/starter terminals
3. Weak replacement battery.

Have you tried jumping your vehicle from another running vehicle?
There isn't a clutch interlock circuit that is supposed to prevent starting with the clutch engaged that has been disconnected?

[LowKeySlow]

yeah, i suppose it could be a faulty replacement starter. battery terminals look clean but I'll try that as well can't hurt to clean'em. the replacement battery is the exact same battery that was used before so i wouldn't suspect it to be weak now. we tried jumping it still won't turnover.

I'm not sure about a clutch interlock circuit I'll look into that.

[Grady]

Originally Posted by LowKeySlow

sorry, I should've specified the solenoid on the starter shorted.

we measured in DC and did some math to determine the amperage flow. I'm not the best with electronics so my body who is an engineer did all of the measurements and equations. when we all meet up tonight I can get more specific with the numbers.

Ok once again the solenoid does not make power so it can not be shorted. My guess is you shorted the battery at the solenoid?

I want to see your math on that one!

Being as tho you had a short there are 2 things we need to do.

1st is to go through all the wires you touched to make sure they are correct and not damaged. Power ground etc. take the connectors apart and look at the pins, then reconnect and verify the are seated all the way. Erase the part of your brain that is telling you I checked everything and it is correct. Start from scratch like you have never seen this car before.

2nd is to go back through the fuses to verify their integrity. They have to be removed. check each one for continuity. Use the diode check feature on your meter if it has one. It checks them with a higher voltage.

[LowKeySlow]

Originally Posted by Grady

Ok once again the solenoid does not make power so it can not be shorted. My guess is you shorted the battery at the solenoid?

I want to see your math on that one!

Being as tho you had a short there are 2 things we need to do.

1st is to go through all the wires you touched to make sure they are correct and not damaged. Power ground etc. take the connectors apart and look at the pins, then reconnect and verify the are seated all the way. Erase the part of your brain that is telling you I checked everything and it is correct. Start from scratch like you have never seen this car before.

2nd is to go back through the fuses to verify their integrity. They have to be removed. check each one for continuity. Use the diode check feature on your meter if it has one. It checks them with a higher voltage.

fair enough! I think that's a good point to start is verifying everything again. I'll start from scratch tonight.

[Grady]

Ok I just had time to look at the starting circuit. There is no fuse for the power of the starter. If the relay is clicking and not starting then the control circuit should be ok.

Check the 2 large studs on the back of the solenoid for voltage. With power off you should have 12V on one and no voltage on the other. If you do not have voltage on ether you have a power feed issue. If you do have voltage then move to next step.

Get help and the lug that does not have power(Be careful on this step! Make sure you hands, fingers, willy is not in the way of anything that turns when the engine is running) when someone hits the start button and the relay clicks do you have power at that stud?

If you do then the starter is defective.

If you do not the solenoid is defective.

This is assuming everything is wired correct.

Edit:
Also monitor voltage while it is clicking if the voltage is steady you have a component issue. If voltage drops down when it clicks you have a power supply issue.

[Totmacher]

Just to be clear... You did correctly reconnect the 2 plugs and ground wire on top of transmission after reinstalling?

[LowKeySlow]

Correct, I plugged in the two connectors and bolted down the ground wire. I'm still having issues. this weekend I'm going to pull the harness that connects to the starter and I'm going to continuity test each individual pin on it to find out if there's a short in the wiring.