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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


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Old 04-16-2021, 10:26 PM   #85
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The majority I see in my area seem to be middle aged women!
those are where all the automatics went 🤣
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Old 04-16-2021, 10:30 PM   #86
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I don't buy the whole "young guys all beat on and don't take care of their cars" thing anyway. Many actually take better care than some older guys.
haha like my 25 year old stepson that just fried the motor in his WRX because he never checked the oil? Those young guys? 🤣
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Old 04-16-2021, 11:17 PM   #87
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Let me be honest with you. Get the M2 if it's going to be your last sportscar. The M2 and its many variations right now I would consider to be more special than the BRZ/86. It's probably the only M car worth the money.

A BRZ will never be as special as an M2, just like how an M2 will never be as special as an NSX.

No modern BMW is really special. The M2 at a catastrophic 3600 lbs especially at its relatively medium size and high center of gravity compared to real sports cars is mostly loved because of the engine just like many fast GT type cars. The 86 more so have the feel of the old school BMW's like the e30 M3.
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Old 04-16-2021, 11:58 PM   #88
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If they still made swoopy, 3-door “coupe” style hot hatches (like the prior gen Megane RS, Astra VXR, or my fav, the Scirocco R etc) then they’d still be in contention for me vs a dedicated RWD sports car, even with FWD.

Alas, the 3-door hot hatches are virtually gone now in favour of uglier but more practical 5-door versions because the 3-doors sold in low volumes. I think the only 3-door hatch still available new (certainly in Oz) is the Mini Cooper. I can’t ever see a boxy 5-door hatch as a “sportscar” however quick it is. Many of today’s 5-door hot hatches are quicker than dedicated RWD sports cars like the MX-5, 86, or 370Z, but the hatches are still an appliance first and foremost. I feel similarly about the ‘super-SUVs’ that are so fast. Impressive numbers, but just not proper sportscars. Too big, too heavy, you sit far too high and they lack the style and road presence of a coupe.

Megane:

VXR:


Scirocco:
So a CTR and Focus RS are appliances?
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Old 04-17-2021, 12:12 AM   #89
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No modern BMW is really special. The M2 at a catastrophic 3600 lbs especially at its relatively medium size and high center of gravity compared to real sports cars is mostly loved because of the engine just like many fast GT type cars. The 86 more so have the feel of the old school BMW's like the e30 M3.
You're missing out, and to claim that no modern BMW is special is pretty narrow sighted.

Enjoy your golden child 86 though, can't believe you'd drive that 2800 lbs porker when 2300 lbs miatas exist. Someone should've told Nissan a 3800 lbs GTR would've been a PoS.

Low centre of gravity and low weight does a sportscar make.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:11 AM   #90
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GR Yaris?
Yes! Should have remembered that one. Probably the last of the breed.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:36 AM   #91
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So a CTR and Focus RS are appliances?
You might disagree, but in my opinion, yes, first and foremost all hot hatches are ultimately appliances (practical cars) first and performance cars second. Impressive performers for sure, but they are impressive despite their econobox underpinnings, not because of them. They are inherently compromised from the start by having to be built around a practical 5-door family hatchback.

Put it another way, take the engine, brakes, suspension and all the other engineering expertise that makes a CTR so quick, and have Honda apply it all to a smaller 2-door coupe that is lighter and has a lower CoG... that coupe would be even quicker than the CTR. If the engineers were given a clean slate and no practicality restraints to design the best handling and quickest car that can still seat two adults, they will base it around a 2-door coupe before considering making it a 5-door hatch. That coupe would in turn be a sportscar first and an appliance second.

To make it even clearer, consider a CTR vs a Lotus Elise. Both can put down impressive lap times, but the Lotus is a dedicated sports car and would be most enthusiasts first choice on a dedicated track day, whereas the CTR is a practical car and would be the only logical pick between the two if you had to pick some people up from the airport or transport some flat pack furniture from IKEA.

It’s no reason to get upset, just the reality of vehicle design and the compromises that must be made to bring these vehicles to market and make them affordable and profitable.
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:16 AM   #92
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Yes! Should have remembered that one. Probably the last of the breed.
Yep I doubt we’ll see cars like this again, especially when electric vehicles become the norm.
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Old 04-17-2021, 08:02 AM   #93
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You're missing out, and to claim that no modern BMW is special is pretty narrow sighted.

Enjoy your golden child 86 though, can't believe you'd drive that 2800 lbs porker when 2300 lbs miatas exist. Someone should've told Nissan a 3800 lbs GTR would've been a PoS.
I don't find any modern BMWs "special" either. I've driven a lot of different cars on the street and at the track over the years, and yeah, weight does* matter, a lot, to me. Even my Cayman felt too heavy, at 3050 lb. C'mon, Porsche, you can do a *lot* better than that. BRZ is fine for me as my only car. If there were a fixed-roof coupe/hatch Miata I'd be there but as a convertible it's just a bit too impractical. BRZ is not super-light, but I'm fine with it. 3600+ lb. M2? No way, even if it were reasonably priced. Porsche and BMW could learn a *lot* from the FT86. If they were interested in making legit lighter-weight sports cars. Which clearly they are not...
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Old 04-17-2021, 08:15 AM   #94
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I had BMWs almost exclusively before the BRZ, and still have my wife's E90 335i which is a great sports sedan that is very fun to drive for what it is (IE not an M car). That said I haven't driven a BMW made past ~2012 that felt like a true driver's car like my Z4 or E46. There is a difference between sports cars and performance cars, and that's where BMW has lost the enthusiasts over the past ~10 years. Their current cars are faster than they've ever been, but also more dull than they've ever been.

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3600+ lb. M2? No way, even if it were reasonably priced.
What really kills me is that the M2 is slightly heavier than the contemporary M3/4. Like what the hell BMW? Even the 1st 1-series was barely any lighter than the 3 series despite being much smaller.
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:06 AM   #95
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I had BMWs almost exclusively before the BRZ, and still have my wife's E90 335i which is a great sports sedan that is very fun to drive for what it is (IE not an M car). That said I haven't driven a BMW made past ~2012 that felt like a true driver's car like my Z4 or E46. There is a difference between sports cars and performance cars, and that's where BMW has lost the enthusiasts over the past ~10 years. Their current cars are faster than they've ever been, but also more dull than they've ever been.

Agree 100%. I had an E92 and my wife an E90. When they went to the F series, IMHO, they lost whatever made BMW the Ultimate Driving Machine.
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:28 AM   #96
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Agree 100%. I had an E92 and my wife an E90. When they went to the F series, IMHO, they lost whatever made BMW the Ultimate Driving Machine.

Yep. When it was time to replace our E92 (baby seats), we test drove an F30 335i M-sport. It made no sense to me to pay that amount of money for a car that is worse (for us at least) than the one we were selling. We set our sights on an almost new E90 335i M-sport, saved 15k, and got a better car.
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Old 04-17-2021, 12:29 PM   #97
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I don't find any modern BMWs "special" either. I've driven a lot of different cars on the street and at the track over the years, and yeah, weight does* matter, a lot, to me. Even my Cayman felt too heavy, at 3050 lb. C'mon, Porsche, you can do a *lot* better than that. BRZ is fine for me as my only car. If there were a fixed-roof coupe/hatch Miata I'd be there but as a convertible it's just a bit too impractical. BRZ is not super-light, but I'm fine with it. 3600+ lb. M2? No way, even if it were reasonably priced. Porsche and BMW could learn a *lot* from the FT86. If they were interested in making legit lighter-weight sports cars. Which clearly they are not...
As Colin Chapman (who knew a thing or two about making fun sports cars) said, "Simplify, then add lightness".
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:27 PM   #98
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I don't find any modern BMWs "special" either. I've driven a lot of different cars on the street and at the track over the years, and yeah, weight does* matter, a lot, to me. Even my Cayman felt too heavy, at 3050 lb. C'mon, Porsche, you can do a *lot* better than that. BRZ is fine for me as my only car. If there were a fixed-roof coupe/hatch Miata I'd be there but as a convertible it's just a bit too impractical. BRZ is not super-light, but I'm fine with it. 3600+ lb. M2? No way, even if it were reasonably priced. Porsche and BMW could learn a *lot* from the FT86. If they were interested in making legit lighter-weight sports cars. Which clearly they are not...
You miss my point entirely.

There is a reason I mentioned MX5 and GTR, yet you glossed over one. I don't think Porsche or BMW need to learn anything from the FT86, a car with a weak engine and huge weight compared to a MX5. If anything, they can learn from the MX5.

All I've read so far is the expected bias from owners of the Twins, you don't want to respect other cars because they don't fit your needs/wants, yet when you try to argue something you say the twins are practical.

Maybe I should give more examples of various cars at various weights, then you'd understand. Maybe something like the 3500lbs Gallardo or 3800lbs NSX or even 3100lbs Evora, oh and honorable mention 2400lbs A110.

The twins are good cars, but not a benchmark by a long shot.
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