Shopping between BRZ and MX-5. Can't get over torque dip.

[KAuss]

So long story short, been following this car since concept (thus my reg date) and never made the call to trade in my X-Runner for this car. Now the X-Runner is 14 years old and I'm on my way to purchasing "something" whatever that might be. I'm cross shopping this thing (BRZ mostly) against the MX-5. I just came back from a test drive of both 2019 models in MT, and am still torn which one I want to get.

Even though I don't own the car, even I'm sick of people talking about the torque dip. So I'm sure you all are more sick of it than I am. I must admit it's the very reason I have never pulled the trigger on this car. However the time has come. I have to buy something soon. My X-Runner is developing 3rd gear issues with grinds before it's fully warmed up, and gas mileage is making a new car purchase worth it.

The one thing I haven't followed up on would be the aftermarket scene. Since this car will most likely be maybe 2K - 3K less than the MX-5 per the options I want, I would have a budget of 2K - 3K to work with on mods. The only thing is, I most likely wouldn't be messing with any mods that'll violate California emissions tests. Even though that's a long ways away, I'm not looking to put my daily driver in shops tuning it all the time. Nor am I looking for that one bad luck ticket that'll take all my time to resolve. So mods are most likely going to be cat back / some aesthetics. I do plan on getting a whole lot of audio work done too if I get the BRZ, while the MX-5 would be purely driving focused.

I have to say the MX-5's "go" was a lot better than the BRZ without a doubt. Not even a contest. However, the BRZ's behavior in turns was a bright spot. Though I suspect with more time on the MX-5 I'd be more familiar with its limits and would gain the same confidence. The MX-5 overall was a bit more floaty, and it was a HUGE adjustment in seating position in the MX-5 coming from the X-Runner, while the BRZ felt a lot more at home.

I drive 80 miles a day on my commute, and the BRZ's utility is worth something to me. I just can't get over the torque dip. After driving the MX-5, it felt pretty gutless up until 6K, and I don't see myself visiting 6K all to often on my commute. Same can be said about the MX-5 where the improved power numbers are all in the extra rev band compared to last year. That's 6.5K to 7.5K. The difference is, the damn car pulls in every RPM range. You feel it surging the whole time. The lack of torque dip is nice on the MX-5, but I can't get over the lack of storage of any kind, and the lack of a spare for my 80 mile commute. Still, it was so fast, and the fly wheel was so much easier to shift too. The BRZ seems like it likes to hang the revs a bit just like my cousin's WRX. Not a fan of that so much.

As far as looks, the MX-5 RF is a sexy ass car. I've always liked the 86 a bit more on looks, but recently it's been a toss between BRZ / 86. Only reason why I'm looking at the BRZ is because the 86 is ridiculously higher in price for similar options, and the BRZ has a bit better package option. Though I hate the stock spioler, but can live with it.

Either way, I'm torn, I'm sure some of you have probably gone though this, and most of you just decided to forget about smog regs and mod the hell out of the car to make it better than the MX-5. I just can't afford to do that for consistency sake.

I'm still waiting for quotes on the BRZ from dealers to see where numbers will be at, but I'm getting a WAY better price for the MX-5 and the gap is a lot smaller than I'd expect. I'm so torn I'm not sure what to do.

[86MLR]

I had a MX5, I now have a 86.

MX5 is cool, pun intended, cruising around local back roads with your partner and it can hold luggage for a weekend, just.

Generally the same for the 86, BUT, alot more space, rear seats, that whilst are compromised, can fit in 2 small adults, just.

Power, for a street car there isn't alot of difference between the 2, unless your a traffic light hero, and then, they are both slow anyway.

The question is, do you want a 2 seater convertible or a 4 seater coupe.

I eventually got over the lack of space in my MX5.

Mods with $2000, good tyres, thats about $800, a real spare, $200?, then Ecutek tune for $1000?.

Profit

As for the torque dip, I don't notice it to cruising around, and when I'm up it, it's never that low in the rev range, honestly, I think marketing and Koolaid has more to do with the torque dip than actual real world outcomes, unless you think you are racecardriverbecauseracecar

[KAuss]

Which gen MX-5 did you have? I have never owned a true sports car by any stretch, and the Miata feels fast without being fast. This was true in the NC and the ND I tested today. The BRZ just lacked that little extra something to make me feel the same. I don't street race, but I do like to rip mid rev band every once in a while. I also turn a lot faster than I should on nearly every opportunity. Usually in my X-Runner, I'll play around 2K to 4.5K on a 5.5K redline. I just feel that for me to get that something out of the BRZ, I'd have to ring it through to 6K+ and that's a lot of reving.

I think I can get over the BRZ while new on the speed thing. However, 5 years in, I'm afraid the drive will get stale. I honestly cannot see this happening with the MX-5. Just sitting in traffic with the top down would be something I'd enjoy every once in a while.

I don't have a preference how many seats the car has, but the back seats in the BRZ honestly is mainly storage. Though the lack of storage for the MX-5 is a huge negative for a car I plan on keeping for 10 years as my only vehicle.

Right now, if the price of the BRZ comes down low enough, I think I'm gong to have to make the sensible choice. However, if the price sits at around $2K difference, I might just bite the bullet and go MX-5 because it's a bucket list car for me.

The other little thing is, I think we're closer to the BRZ / 86 gen 2 than the NE MX-5. The MX-5 might still have four more years of production before the next gen, while we're maybe two years away from a new BRZ. If the new gen of BRZ / 86 changes the one t hing that sets these guys back, I wouldn't be too happy about it, unless the price was worth it.

[86MLR]

I had a NB.

If your just after a weekend car the ND RF MX5 might be your bag.

That's the only car I would swap out my current 86 for at the moment.

[KAuss]

Too bad I need it as my daily. My X-Runner is starting to show signs it'll develop a running tab of repairs. So I'm looking for a main ride. If my X-Runner was in good shape, I can actually afford a 2nd hand MX-5 since I'll have two vehicles. Honestly though, aside from the trans, the truck isn't in horrible shape, but it's 160K in now and I'm looking at a 2K - 4K repair so far on it. Might as well have that go towards a replacement. I had literally just replaced the tires on it as well, Sport S4S.

The other situation is to buy two used cars, but I don't think I'd do that over having a better single car. The BRZ would be a better choice than two used cars. I'd get the utility, and the fun. Only catch is that the ND is its competition, and it's probably the best MX-5 to date. Even better than the Mazdaspeed one.

[86MLR]

If I was looking for used, a NB SP or SE would be my pick.

Hard to find mint, low km and unmolested ones though, they are out there though, it just takes time, and cash, hard top is essential though.

[TommyW]

I went from a 911 Turbo to an MX5 to an Frs. The MX5 was a great car and you can never go wrong with one. The handling of the 86 was just so much more what I was after plus I'm not a roadster fan. The Mazda was more for my wife and she did look cute as hell driving it.

The MX5 needs a different suspension setup hands down. The body roll was just way to extreme. The 86 is just so much more planted. You learn to drive around the torque dip. It's never been an issue for me. You can get a tune if it really bothers you.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by KAuss

My X-Runner is developing 3rd gear issues with grinds before it's fully warmed up, and gas mileage is making a new car purchase worth it.

You'll hear some / lots of people on here say, "man, I didn't buy this car to save on gas " or , " mpg / gas savings isn't a factor in my buying this car".

What ever, this car does well in the MPG department given it's a 2L. It's one of it's positives, so why not be proud of that fact ?!?!

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

You'll hear some / lots of people on here say, "man, I didn't buy this car to save on gas " or , " mpg / gas savings isn't a factor in my buying this car".

What ever, this car does well in the MPG department given it's a 2L. It's one of it's positives, so why not be proud of that fact ?!?!

This is one of the reasons why I'm making the switch. However, that being said, I'm not blind to the fact that the MX-5 has 34.5 mpg compared to the 29 in the MT BRZ. That's roughly a saving of about $450 a year for me on my commute between these two cars. It's $13xx and $17xx comparatively against my X-Runner. It won't pay for the car entirely, but it's a measurable savings that'll pay for insurance and then some.

Tire wear on my X-Runner is also very brutal. Even if I'm babying my drive (which I have for the last 27K miles due to transmission) the sheer weight is killing my tires and I don't go cheap on tires. Both of these cars will extend the life of good tires so much more than the X-Runner. My Pole Position S4 lasted maybe 22K miles. I just got Sport S4S on it today and I don't know if these will last past 25K. That's basically one year's worth of my commute.

So much money to be saved in both of these cars. I'm worried the next gen BRZ / 86 will improve on all of this though. So much so that this will be a worse value in a couple years.

[why?]

People have been waiting on the next gen twin for years, and there is no sight of it anywhere. Totally not worth waiting for.

It sounds like you are trying to talk yourself out of the Miata. Don't do that. Just get the miata. You can always rent a car if you need one for a few days. If I didn't despise convertibles I would have probably bought a miata.

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by why?

People have been waiting on the next gen twin for years, and there is no sight of it anywhere. Totally not worth waiting for.

It sounds like you are trying to talk yourself out of the Miata. Don't do that. Just get the miata. You can always rent a car if you need one for a few days. If I didn't despise convertibles I would have probably bought a miata.

This is the advice everyone around me has given me and it's the most logical. I also live with my sister and brother in law. They have a Sienna and a XB. So I'm not completely SOL if I need to haul something.

I think if the price of the Limited BRZ with PP can come down to 28K flat before TTS, I might pull the trigger. Because a MX-5 with LSD, Bilstien, and BBK, would be 33K. Right now, the option without BBK is 30K. There's way more car in the BRZ than the MX-5 at that point. Not to mention the Android Auto upgrade for the MX-5 is another $500 - $600. While it's standard on the BRZ. The Mazda upgrade is also needed as it's near impossible to find a good spot to mount your phone. Also, going aftermarket on the MX-5 is also impossible. Not to mention, there's not touch screen for AA, only Carplay. I haven't researched, but I'd assume AA on BRZ features touch screen.

Right now I'm talking myself out of both cars, and talking myself in both cars. I have this thread, and one over at Miata forums. However, I'd have to say that the point you bring up is the ultimate wildcard. Utility is just a rental away. So if the price of the BRZ is not surprising enough, I might have to scratch one off the bucket list.

At least then if the twins get updated, I won't kick myself on having a 2019 when the upgrades this year have not been stellar. Honestly, if I could find a 2018 with PP, I think you can get an additional $2K off, but I haven't found any around my area. That would be the ultimate deal right now. I couldn't care less about push to start, and swapping out the deck in a BRZ is a breeze.

[Tcoat]

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You kid, but I've thought about this, but figured I'd try to let the owners for these cars talk me in to one more than the other first LOL.

Look at it this way. I've joined this forum when this car was still in concept mode, and I've joined Miata forums since 2006 when the NC was around. These two cars have been on my radar for a very long time. It'll break my heart either way, but one more week and I think I'll have my answer once all the emails get handled. I hope without the help from a certain coin.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by KAuss

You kid, but I've thought about this, but figured I'd try to let the owners for these cars talk me in to one more than the other first LOL.

Look at it this way. I've joined this forum when this car was still in concept mode, and I've joined Miata forums since 2006 when the NC was around. These two cars have been on my radar for a very long time. It'll break my heart either way, but one more week and I think I'll have my answer once all the emails get handled. I hope without the help from a certain coin.

I actually was not joking. It sounds like you are firmly on the fence.