Adequate/Inadequate power for DD on stock BRZ?

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Yes. Soooooo linear. I'll take the torque dip over that dropoff to redline any day.




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Linear meaning it doesn't have an obvious dip right in the middle.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Yes. Soooooo linear. I'll take the torque dip over that dropoff to redline any day.




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Uhhh, I hate to say it but that dropoff isn't as bad as it looks. The scale just makes it look real bad.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by kb3dow

I am willing to do that (maybe not right away). What I have to read up is if the header (e.g. OFT header + tune) needs the original header to be installed each time the emission test needs to be done.

Last I lived in MD, the checks were done by a bored tech at a county-run mass emissions testing station. By tech, I mean someone who has 20 minutes of training to take your money, plug in a cable, read the output, and print a piece of paper depending on the result. OFT or any other tuning solution disables the "Your cat is busted" code the computer looks for. The ECU reports ready, but doesn't even check to see if it should throw the code. Thus you should theoretically pass emissions inspection.

[Jegan_V]

As a DD in manual form, this car has more than enough power. I don't know how many times I keep saying this but the vast majority of the cars out there on public roads are slower than this car is. All the NA 4-cylinder vehicles out there are except the MX-5 are unquestionably slower than this car is and this will be the majority of what you deal with in most cases. Then we get to the V6s, older V6 vehicles are also slower and most of the minivan class is slower too. This car can even defeat the more entry level V8 pickup trucks. What this car does is more likely than not tie the majority of the big V6 vehicles. The only problem racing such vehicles is they're all automatics they can achieve that 100% every time perfectly, whereas this car you must be perfecting shifting to match them thus our results are less consistent. If you're a great driver, they probably won't beat you, but you also probably won't beat them either.

When it comes to this car's power band in stock form, there are 2 regions of where you can extract power. The first is the lower end where from roughly 2500 rpm to 3500 rpm it will move this car like a faster normal car's 4-cylinder, you won't get a sensation of speed but you will be moving quicker. The other region is post 4500 rpm to redline, this is where the full power of this engine comes into play, this region is when this car does move and can hit those faster acceleration times. If this car has a failing, its that even at its max it often doesn't feel like it moves quickly.

Most of the time I drive this car I don't ever hit the higher rpm. I actually do the bulk of my passing in...6th gear! I don't care to race anybody. During the really early days of owning this car, I've had plenty of challenges, I never took them seriously and in essence granny shifted even then, I forced a Civic Si(back then it was current, but now is previous gen) to go all out doing so. Its kind of why I laugh at the notion people think this car is actually slow in DD scenarios, even the automatic with its fuel economy gearing is fast enough for that.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

I don't know how many times I keep saying this but the vast majority of the cars out there on public roads are slower than this car is.

The automotive press doesn't write feature stories about the vast majority of cars out there on public roads. They write about cars that are exciting in some way, either because they look good, handle well, make a lot of power or have some combination of those factors. Often when they write these stories, they don't even drive the cars themselves but just read specs and make assumptions.

The big problem is that what sets this car apart is mostly subjective. Specs on a page are not the whole story. It has to be driven (by someone who has at least a little bit of skill), and even then "great handling," "balance" and "road feel" are not specs. They're just opinions, almost impossible to quantify.

So when the automotive press make comparisons, they don't compare this car to boring little econoboxes, family cars or commuters. They compare it to the other cars they have been writing about because they're at the bleeding edge of technology, have a sleek new design or make 300 HP. Readers who also haven't driven this car or talked to an enthusiast take their lead and spread the same nonsense.

Thus, the whining about lack of power will always be with us. I don't really mind it. I grew up with this kind of car. At least OP was bright enough to question what he was reading and come ask us (the owners) directly. That's the kind of people we really want in the club anyway.

[wbradley]

The car is great in stock form!

The aftermarket support has been unprecedented on this platform which is a huge bonus if you ever consider modding.

The people that sell and also those that already have installed performance mods, especially forced induction, will go on and on regards to how miserably slow the stock power makes this car.

Bullshit!

Lots of people can afford the car but possibly not heavy modification, due to leasing, financing, practicality, knowledge, experience, money.

The car is not slow, just easily modified and with many many people supporting and/or soliciting this.

Id take a stock twin over no twin happily, every day. In fact if I ever sell/trade my heavily modified one (which means taking a huge bath, so not in any hurry at all) I might just go for a more deluxe stock car next time, similar to my second car (18 STI).


Supra

[rvoll]

I second the notion that this car is just fine in stock form -- and I have the money to modify it any way you can. I'm not going to race it or autocross it. It has far more hp than my compact SUV -- which is just fine for 99% of what I do on the road. The car is fun as it is. The only mod I'm even thinking about is better tires. I considered getting aftermarket wheels, but became convinced that it was just not necessary. And wide wheels are just a waste of money unless you are going to race or autocross the car. I'll probably go for some type of armrest, but other than that, it is all out fun. There are many options if you want a more powerful car for either bragging rights or beating others from stoplight to stoplight.

Now if it makes you feel better to get a turbo, wide wheels, lower the car, etc., then go for it. We all spend money to make us feel better. So if that is your thing, then you should do it. It's your money and your driving experience. By the way, if the car came with 50 more hp, that would also be fine with me. If it came with 50 less hp, I probably would have purchased the MX-5.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by kb3dow

I am toying with the idea getting myself a BRZ (stick, ltd+PP).
Many of the comments/review on the web/youtube keep referring to inadequate power (and comparing it to be slower than a family van)- but then I realize most people saying that are just looking at the paper specs.

In all likelihood I will be using it for daily driving and don't foresee myself doing track time. Currently drive an '05 AT V6 Accord with 175K and am happy with its performance/acceleration. If I do get the BRZ I might still keep the Accord as its trade-in value is pittance compared to its utility (to carry stuff/family when needed).

WRT city/highway driving does the BRZ have the power to pass/weave highway traffic with ease? Here in MD, speed limit + 15 seems to be the norm. I have taken a test drive in a BRZ but didn't gun the engine and the 15-20 minute ride was too short to tell.

I just bought the tS version 2 weeks ago and it’s still being broken in. I was an owner of a S2000 ten years ago and I’d compare the acceleration to that car (except for the missing power due to lower rev limit) but as for actual acceleration, I need to hold off because I’m not currently revving the engine hig enough but maybe a few times to 7000 but not very often at all. On the highway and you’re doing 80 MPH in top gear has got enough pull even without downshift and I’ve seen 94 mph without even trying. IMO it’s just fine for daily driving and I also kept my old Legacy with is also a MT and only has 175hp so the BRZ is a healthy step up.

Now it’s going to feel slow in *this* situation:you’re on one back road and turn onto another road where you naturally will slow down. So now your in 4th gear doing 30 MPH and you are just dead in the water. You *need* to shift down to 2-3 gear to get moving.

This example is what I call being lazy, I mean you are driving the BRZ like you would a automatic car or if you had a turbo or big displacement engine where you’ve got TQ in the 2000 rev range. With the BRZ you’re always better in the higher rev range.

I drove the new Cayman which has a 2.0L Turbo with 300hp and PDK and just could accelerate at any speed and anytime. The BRZ is not that car but if you can keep it up in the rev range like 5000 feel fast enough.

I was a prior owner of a e90 M3 414hp DCT and that car was twice as fast in most situations especially since it would downshift automatically. But the M3 was not any more fun and I had to dial it down a lot because it was just so quick effortlessly.

In short the BRZ with 6MT is quite ok, just don’t really race guys at the stoplight. You’ll still probably take off quicker than 98% of the traffic but a person who actually is trying to accelerate fast out from a traffic light will probably be quicker. But in normal BRZ is more than sufficient to keep up with most cars.

[Rai-zero]

PS it’s not the acceleration you’ll notice from your V6 Accord which may be very similar to a well driven BRZ, it’s the taught feel of the BRZ it feels like it’s carved out of a solid block of metal and the shifter linkage is right there not a disconnected linkage like I have in my Legacy. When I drive my Legacy now which I do once a week to keep it from going stale, then I really notice how loose it feels in the shifter and the braking and the cornering.

[kb3dow]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

... In short the BRZ with 6MT is quite ok, just don’t really race guys at the stoplight. You’ll still probably take off quicker than 98% of the traffic but a person who actually is trying to accelerate fast out from a traffic light will probably be quicker. But in normal BRZ is more than sufficient to keep up with most cars.

Thanks, I think that pretty much succinctly sums up the general sentiment that everyone has been saying in this thread.

[kb3dow]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Yes. Soooooo linear. I'll take the torque dip over that dropoff to redline any day.




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This graph shows the max power to be only around 135 HP? Doesn't seem right. Isn't it 200/205 depending on model year?

[dostoyevsky]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The 0 to 60 is one second slower and the 1/4 mile is .8 slower than a 2015 WRX. Some people like to call it "slow" but it is still faster than the majority of cars on the road. Yes there are faster ones which include some high end minivans but the whole concept of "everything can beat it" is just silly.
The torque dip lasts about a tenth of a second if rowing through the gears at heavy acceleration. Big problem if trying to set drag time records but a total non issue when merging onto a freeway. There is plenty of torque still there even in the dip but if you drive around at 3.5K and expect to just floor it and shoot ahead then you will be disappointed. You actually have to shift gears and drove this car not just push a pedal and take off. During daily driving, in most conditions, you can be a greater than the speed of traffic in a few seconds and never even have to get up to the torque dip. This whole concept of having to drive around at redline in order to have enough power on city streets is just the Vin Diesel wanttabes thinking that all driving must be done balls out.

100 percent agree. I think people nowdays are spoiled by the stupid amounts of power. But I also think the reason people say these cars are slow is cuz of the lack of :being pushed into your seat:

[8RZ]

Originally Posted by kb3dow

This graph shows the max power to be only around 135 HP? Doesn't seem right. Isn't it 200/205 depending on model year?

200/205 is engine power (BHP), dyno graphs show WHP (power to the wheels).

135 WHP on a Miata is spot on, mine was around 130whp (over 200k on the ticker too lol).

[bcj]

edit: Re: Miata dyno chart above

And that massive torque dip between 3.5 and 4.5k.
How can anyone drive one of those stupidly useless engines?
Feh.