S2000 to BRZ tS (long post)

[dattran86]

Picture of your new Ts?

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by dattran86

Picture of your new Ts?

How do you load pictures? Can I load from my phone or need to use a hosting service?

[bcj]

With a hosting service you can post larger, more detailed photos.
Loading into the site directly, there will be size restrictions.

[Aipex8]

Wow, only 38k miles on the S2000 after 16 years?

I recently traded my RX-8 (similar high-revving driving experience to the S2000 in a bigger package) after 13 years. Though mine had nearly 150k on the odometer. My 3rd engine was starting to have compression problems and I was just done with rotaries.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by Aipex8

Wow, only 38k miles on the S2000 after 16 years?

I recently traded my RX-8 (similar high-revving driving experience to the S2000 in a bigger package) after 13 years. Though mine had nearly 150k on the odometer. My 3rd engine was starting to have compression problems and I was just done with rotaries.

No I only had it for 6 years, sold it 10 years ago. Had a e90 M3 for 6 years after that and nothing for the last 4 years except my old Legacy wagon.

So I’m going by older memories to recall but I think I’m being accurate and honest.

The BRZ would have fit right in back in 1999 when the S2000 was released.

The main things that have occurred are things like stability control, LED headlights Bluetooth etc. but the basic car feels a lot like a new S2000 (ish).

[DAEMANO]

On which car is "faster". I thought this was as close to objectively settled some time ago by Dezoris.

For those that haven't seen his vids on this subject. It's a 2-parter, please watch both videos to get a full idea of their approach and biases (it's definitely canted to the S2k, but the results were not.) Keep in mind he and his "bruh" Turbowski were snarky mofos in those days and have settled down a bit over the years in later videos.

For the test, Dezoris setup both cars to near identical WHP, tires and brakes then ran both at a track. His FR-S is supercharged using an early S/C kit that was hardly reliable.

His FR-S was faster with both drivers... by a lot...

2-3 seconds depending on the driver.

Also both drivers came into the test preferring the S2k to own as it was made from higher quality parts, and requires less modifications from a base FR-S to get track reliable performance (Remember adjusted for inflation an S2K would cost $38-$44k in 2018 depending on the model, it's a different class of car.) Dezoris talks a lot of smack about the 86, but a lot of his grief came from being an early modder and having to learn about the platform on his own dime and wrench time. Now that there are tS and PP versions of the BRZ less aftermarket modifications would be needed then when he ran his test. We also know better now what the car needs and what its' potential is so we can approach modding the car in a more efficient way.

Go to the 7:00 min mark for results from pass 1 and then 10:20 for results from pass two (where they switched drivers.)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gluk3_otoUo"]Review | S2000 vs FRS (GT86 BRZ) Track | Part 2 of 2 - YouTube[/ame]


Still some will find a car like the S2k that feels twitchy at the limit more rewarding as it take more concentration to drive it fast. It feels fast, even if it isn't as fast as it feels. I can appreciate that as it's fun to be scared a bit. Some will find a car like the BRZ/86 that feels stable at the limit more rewarding because it better communicates its' limits and therefore can be faster and safer. I can also appreciate driving a car that doesn't feel like it's trying to kill me.

In the end, if you want to talk apples to apples about what platform is ultimately "faster" it's the 86 without a doubt given near equal power, tires, brakes and track conditions... and it's not close.

[Rai-zero]

To me the BRZ tS feels more like a lighter M3 with skinny tires for handling but acceleration is more like a S2000.

I just wanted to point out as mentioned the S2000 was engineered way above the Miata reflecting its price closer to a Boxster than a Miata at the time. Miata was $20K back then in 1999, today the BRZ runs with the MX5 in price and if we subtract inflation would have been a $20K-$26K (base-tS) back in 2002.

I don’t mean to put down anything about the S2000 it was and *still is* a great car. But when I hear people say the S2000 ‘owns’ the BRZ because it has what 35 more horsepower I’m just not seeing that. To me steering feel and now more stable or controllable at the limit that means a lot to me.

[Brayden_23]

Interested to hear what you think after you finish the break-in period. At 5500-7400RPM, this car becomes a totally different pony.

[Geese1]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts concerning the STI short shifter versus the normal shifter in the BRZ. When I ordered my car back at the end of February I opted to get the short shifter, but I've never actually driven either version (or any of the 86 cars for that matter - none around to test drive so doing a blind buy). I based the shifter decision on other cars I've driven in the past, but truthfully I don't know whether it makes a difference or not.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by Geese1

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts concerning the STI short shifter versus the normal shifter in the BRZ. When I ordered my car back at the end of February I opted to get the short shifter, but I've never actually driven either version (or any of the 86 cars for that matter - none around to test drive so doing a blind buy). I based the shifter decision on other cars I've driven in the past, but truthfully I don't know whether it makes a difference or not.

To be honest can’t tell anything much difference. It’s not short like what I remember with the S2000 or MX5 that I test drove a month ago. Those felt like you could shift with a flick of the wrist especially 1-2 or 3-4 shift. The BRZ even with the short shifter is definitely a bit longer. However it’s not bad, also note I’m used to having a center armrest which I plan to add so maybe with that I’ll get the wrist action feeling.

I only drove the BRZ before this 3 different times maybe 20 miles altogether and didn’t drive back to back with the short shifter so I can’t really say for sure. However it does not feel any worse at all, if I didn’t know it was short throw kit I’d think it was stock or how it was meant to be if that makes sense.

[Geese1]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

To be honest can’t tell anything much difference. It’s not short like what I remember with the S2000 or MX5 that I test drove a month ago. Those felt like you could shift with a flick of the wrist especially 1-2 or 3-4 shift. The BRZ even with the short shifter is definitely a bit longer. However it’s not bad, also note I’m used to having a center armrest which I plan to add so maybe with that I’ll get the wrist action feeling.

I only drove the BRZ before this 3 different times maybe 20 miles altogether
and didn’t drive back to back with the short shifter so I can’t really say for sure. However it does not feel any worse at all, if I didn’t know it was short throw kit I’d think it was stock or how it was meant to be if that makes sense.

Yeah, that does help, thanks.

I know Subaru advertises the car's stock shifter as having short throws, so as you said, maybe there isn't much of a difference between the STI shifter and stock.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by Geese1

Yeah, that does help, thanks.

I know Subaru advertises the car's stock shifter as having short throws, so as you said, maybe there isn't much of a difference between the STI shifter and stock.

I did a search could not find any reviews either. I didn’t want or not want it, but it was already installed on the car so I got it. No negative from me but it’s not all that much different that I can tell.

[Geese1]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

I did a search could not find any reviews either. I didn’t want or not want it, but it was already installed on the car so I got it. No negative from me but it’s not all that much different that I can tell.

I'll have it on my car when it comes in, but without anything to compare it to I'm just glad to know that there's nothing wrong with it either.

[Rai-zero]

I still make the argument that I don’t need any more power for the streets, not like I’m ever racing anyone. I’m still in the break in period and hitting 93 on the highway without even thinking about it.