Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[OkieSnuffBox]

I think a lot of it is overblown for the average HPDE'r.

Hell I drove my Miata to the track for an HPDE a few years ago on R888s and it was 21° outside when I left the house. The tires didn't crack, I didn't lose control and fly off the road and didn't die.

Even the first session of the day was colder than recommended temps. It took 2 laps instead of 1 to get up to temp.

Also used R888s on a wet track.........it's excellent car control practice.


In other words, quit overthinking it and just go drive.

[MaximeT]

I drove a048r at -5°C on track.
Was just fine. Your feet on the Lotus aluminum chassis, not so much

[jjaisli]

In other words, quit overthinking it and just go drive.

(Not sure why the quote button isn't working)

Thanks. This is what I'm starting to get out of this and probably what my shop was trying to tell me from the beginning.

I had one experience on the Z2s in the wet. I was lead to believe all along that they were relatively adequate on a damp track, less so with any standing water, and there was some standing water, but I think in my case they maybe already had too many heat cycles. It was a thoroughly white knuckle experience, even with the traction control on and one I'm not eager to repeat. Anything more than 50% throttle over 4,000 rpm, even in a straight line required constant correction and around corners it was like driving on ice. The other cars around me, on more appropriate rubber, weren't struggling anywhere near as much, and the lines I was having to drive were too erratic, so I called it quits after just 3 laps.

[Pat]

I appreciate your approach to introducing more camber. Generally speaking making moderate incremental adjustments is the way to go. That said, I would be shocked if you didn't want at least three degrees of camber by the end of your first day on the new setup. And I'm a little surprised your shop is suggesting -2.3 and -1.7 to start, given their experience with these cars on the track. If you're alright going in for another alignment after your first day on the new setup, by all means go with what they recommend. I have been through what you are about to go through and would suggest no less than three degrees of camber in the front, and about one degree less in the back than the front.
Last fall I got r-comps for the first time on the BRZ and went out with -2.7* up front. They wore more on the outside than the inside and grained to the point it slowed me down noticeably. Now I have -3.2* up front and expect that problem will go away. I know it sounds like a lot, but r-comps are a different ball game.

[jjaisli]

Thanks again Pat--I appreciate the feedback. The shop is very accommodating and told me that they had no issues making adjustments after my first event (and they won't charge me for it--at least not the first time). There were a lot of changes to the car over the winter, although I'm sure the tires will be the biggest difference. I was comfortable with it last season and knew what I could and couldn't do and how it would respond and how far I could push. So I'm going to have to sort of relearn all of that again. Things are much more complex now. I'm going to be working with a friend and mentor up at WGI in May. He doesn't have a lot of experience with the FT86 but he's driven a former VLN racecar for several years so he has a wealth of knowledge to draw from. But of course it's also important that I feel comfortable in the car and that it responds the way I want it to. And that I'm able to understand why it's responding in the way it is. LOL It's really another world now and why I was a bit reluctant to go to an adjustable suspension. But it's done now. So it's learn and adapt and have fun.

I'm going to be as far south as Road Atlanta and as far north as Mont Tremblant, Canada this season. I'm also wondering how -3.0 of camber will affect wear on my street tires (just the stock Bridgestone Turanzas) driving that far. I guess if I'm just aggressive about rotating it will help.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Toe has a much larger affect on wear then camber does.

[Pat]

I had -2.7* of camber up front with zero toe over the last seven months. I have snow tires and they definitely wore more on the inner shoulder than I would have liked. I didn't rotate them during the winter. I plan to run about -2.1 degrees of camber on the street with zero toe. Then change my camber plates at the track to -3.2 degrees of camber which will mean .1 degrees of toe in. I'm willing to accept/compromise a tiny bit of toe in at the track to get more camber there, and run zero toe on the street with appropriate street camber all while not having to get the car aligned all the time.

[jjaisli]

Thanks Pat--that's helpful.

I had -2.7* of camber up front with zero toe over the last seven months.

How many miles would you say your drove during that time?

[Pat]

I keep track of mileage for work, so I can tell you it was right at 7,000. The tires were Dunlop Winter Maxx.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

(Not sure why the quote button isn't working)

Thanks. This is what I'm starting to get out of this and probably what my shop was trying to tell me from the beginning.

I had one experience on the Z2s in the wet. I was lead to believe all along that they were relatively adequate on a damp track, less so with any standing water, and there was some standing water, but I think in my case they maybe already had too many heat cycles. It was a thoroughly white knuckle experience, even with the traction control on and one I'm not eager to repeat. Anything more than 50% throttle over 4,000 rpm, even in a straight line required constant correction and around corners it was like driving on ice. The other cars around me, on more appropriate rubber, weren't struggling anywhere near as much, and the lines I was having to drive were too erratic, so I called it quits after just 3 laps.

Yup. I had an experience just like that on Thunderbolt with my last heat cycled Z2's. With traction on, the car was basically undriveable as the system would intervene constantly regardless of the line you took. Turn 5 was max 30mph or the car was sideways. Not good times.
To be honest, I had them on the Glen brand new and they weren't very confidence inspiring in the wet but were manageable. The Kumho XS fared better.

Honestly, the BEST performance 'rain' tire I've ever driven on were the Goodyear F1 GS D3's. Unbelievable what you could do with them. Down side is they're easily 2-3 seconds slower (AX) in the dry and will blade or chunk easily when pushed hard.

[jjaisli]

@Pat I'm relieved to hear that. I don't expect to put more than 4-5K per year on the car on the road. I was concerned that it would be much worse. And yes, my shop recommended to leave the toe where it was. At least initially.

@Uplink Funny, my experience was at Lightning. Thunder and Lightning. Perhaps it's just a monstrous omen not to drive in the rain at NJMSP. LOL

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Toe has a much larger affect on wear then camber does.

Yep. Easiest way to look at it is Toe affects wear on the contact patch, Camber determines where that contact patch is.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

@Uplink Funny, my experience was at Lightning. Thunder and Lightning. Perhaps it's just a monstrous omen not to drive in the rain at NJMSP. LOL

Well, just in case you have to, on TB water pools at the apex of 1, 2 & 3 have some decent runoff just in case, 5 is very slick and the Octopus left hander has a ton of seam sealer so it can get dicy. Also if you drop 2 coming on the front straight hot/early, just ease off and ride it out, don't try to quickly pull back on the pavement.

[jjaisli]

I actually dropped 2 (which became 4) on the exit of 2 (at Thunderbolt) when I ran out of exit curbing. Right thing to do though. It happened on my last track event of 2015, on the final day, during the very last session. It was my only 4 off the entire year. Total facepalm. But perhaps a good way to end the year with a reminder to keep things in check. I was getting a bit greedy and ambitious with how much curb I was taking (But I still blame the tires)

Just out of curiosity, what kind of times are you running there?