Chris Harris Talks Cars With Gordon Murray

[Captain Snooze]

This is related to but not the same as Gordon Murray's new car thread.

[gtpvette]

Wow,,, it's long but what a fascinating guy. An amazing collection of cars he's designed.

[serialk11r]

Listening to him talk about the F1 and T50, I am nodding in agreement about how a car *should* be, but what I wonder is why car companies can't build them that way... Are we enthusiasts much rarer than we would like to think?

The only car in the US I consider to meet that "minimalist M/T driver's car" philosophy is the Miata (the Boxster Spyder is stripped down, but it has too much comfortable tourer DNA in it). There's gotta be a reason no one else is jumping in right?

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

There's gotta be a reason no one else is jumping in right?

Nobody gonna buy it. The problem with sports cars is that the people who lust after them can't afford them, and the people who can afford them don't want the rawness they yearned for in their youth anymore. Cheap sports cars suffer from too much compromise to reach their price point. Expensive ones are built for their demographics (and guess what, it's not a single 25 years old track rat or canyon carver).

Mazda really deserve applause for keeping the MX5 as pure as they did for over 30 years (and it's this heritage that allows it to survive in the current market so well). Other than that you only get short lived models that get their 6-7-8 years in the sun and then get devoured by the bean counters - the MR2s, the S2000, the RX-7/8 (or whatever your fancy takes you).
It's shaping up that the Twins will follow suit (either with no second gen or with a watered down one), although I'd be really happy to be proven wrong by Toyota and Subaru. At the current climate in the car industry, I don't see a replacement for my BRZ.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

The problem with sports cars is that the people who lust after them can't afford them, and the people who can afford them don't want the rawness they yearned for in their youth anymore. Cheap sports cars suffer from too much compromise to reach their price point.

That's a good point I keep forgetting, old people do like soft luxury comforts and extra seats for the kids. That's the demographic car makers target when they intentionally numb the steering feel and add throttle lag. Yes, I am amazed that the ND Miata is so pure, and though I didn't really enjoy my FR-S, I respect that for a rather practical 4-legit-seat car, it's still very sporty.

I feel like Toyota had a strong Miata competitor in the MR2, but dropped the ball on the Spyder by offering virtually zero luggage space, ceding the whole segment to Mazda. I just really hope Lotus keeps its upcoming car small and not-turbocharged, I'm prepared to buy one new to show my support.

[nikitopo]

Funny thing is that he is designing super cars, but he was driving for years a SMART roadster.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Funny thing is that he is designing super cars, but he was driving for years a SMART roadster.

A car famous for having the worst automatic gearbox imaginable for a sporty car, and no manual option.

[Captain Snooze]

But have you seen his Escort? The designer of the F1 wants an Escort!
This goes for 17 episodes.

[nikitopo]

Yeah ... In general very light and fun cars. Just a food for thought about the real world usefulness of super cars ...

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yeah ... In general very light and fun cars. Just a food for thought about the real world usefulness of super cars ...

Cars long ago stopped just being about transport. Status is a very relevant thing. You are not buying a car, you a buying an image.
Among the wealthy having a rare thing is more status than having a common thing. Having one of only 100 cars is much, much better than having one of 2000 cars.
I'm suggesting the usefulness is somewhat irrelevant.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Cars long ago stopped just being about transport. Status is a very relevant thing. You are not buying a car, you a buying an image.
Among the wealthy having a rare thing is more status than having a common thing. Having one of only 100 cars is much, much better than having one of 2000 cars.
I'm suggesting the usefulness is somewhat irrelevant.

As you said. It is not a car anymore, but an image.

[bcj]

AAAaaannnndnddd ...
He's gone back to the center seat driving position. It's so SPECIAL!

Ahm oot!

[gtpvette]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

That's a good point I keep forgetting, old people do like soft luxury comforts and extra seats for the kids. .

Humm,,,,,, I assure you not all 'old' people want soft luxury.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by gtpvette

Humm,,,,,, I assure you not all 'old' people want soft luxury.

Well I guess your opinion and my opinion don't really matter when Porsche seems to think all old people want soft luxury