4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The anticipated curb weight (2290-2360 pounds in US trim) is primarily what makes the ND so exciting.

For the sake of discussion, using these number results in a PTW ratio of:

2290 (lbs)/155 (hp) = 14.8 lbs per 1 hp

2360 (lbs)/155 (hp) = 15.4 lbs per 1 hp

As a reminder, the FR-S PTW ratio is:

2753 (lbs)/200 (hp) = 13.8 lbs per 1 hp

Of course, we will have to wait for the true curb weight to be made available before a precise number can be provided.

[chaoskaze]

With spec on ND if the gear selection is as good as NC it will be ahead of 86 on tech track cuz our torque dip....

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

With spec on ND if the gear selection is as good as NC it will be ahead of 86 on tech track cuz our torque dip....

I don't think the 3.5-5k torque dip is going to be a huge issue around the track.

It will have an impact, but keeping the car above 5k rpm on the track isn't difficult in the hands of a good driver.

On an autoX course on the other hand...

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by babydriver

Do you mean that the FR-S is about as fast as the 2016 or the 2015 Mazda? I test drove both the 2015 FR-S and the Miata MX-5 almost back to back last September, on the same day. There was no doubt in my mind that the FR-S had better acceleration and more power than the 2015 Mazda. It also handled better.

Clarification, please!

I haven't driven an NC2 in years, but in my experience, the FT86 and NC2 offer similar acceleration. The FT86 is more planted (stiffer chassis, less body roll) but the NC2 hangs with it in the curves.

Originally Posted by babydriver

For the sake of discussion, using these number results in a PTW ratio of:

2290 (lbs)/155 (hp) = 14.8 lbs per 1 hp

2360 (lbs)/155 (hp) = 15.4 lbs per 1 hp

As a reminder, the FR-S PTW ratio is:

2753 (lbs)/200 (hp) = 13.8 lbs per 1 hp

Of course, we will have to wait for the true curb weight to be made available before a precise number can be provided.

Again:

Originally Posted by Deslock

You can't go by peak power alone.

The ND will make less power, but it'll have a significantly wider power band. That combined with its lower weight should make it about as fast as the FT86.

A bunch of hypothetical benchracing:

Miata Assumptions:

Rollout    0
Shift time 0.2
Efficiency 0.85
Launch     4000
Cd         NC: 0.34
           ND: 0.33
Area       NC: 2.140
           ND: 2.135
Tires      2L models: 205/45R17
           1.5L:      195/50R16
Gearing    2L models: 3.76 2.27 1.65 1.26 1 0.84 / 4.1
           1.5L:      3.82 2.26 1.64 1.18 1 0.79 / 4.1
Mass (kg): NC2:       1227 (with driver)
           ND2L:      1127 or 1158 (est with driver)
           ND1.5L:    1086 or 1109 (est with driver)

Results (with a couple values for mass and shift points):

car     kg    hp   lbf*ft shift 0-60  1/4
NC2L    1227  167  140    7500  7.28  15.57
NC2L    1227  167  140    7200  7.34  15.63
ND2L    1158  155  148    7000  7.18  15.49
ND2L    1158  155  148    6800  7.20  15.51
ND2L    1127  155  148    7000  7.13  15.43
ND2L    1127  155  148    6800  7.15  15.46
ND1.5L  1109  129  111    7500  7.81  16.06
ND1.5L  1086  129  111    7500  7.74  16.00

We don't know what the gearing in the ND will be, so FWIW.

FT86 Assumptions:

Rollout    0
Shift time 0.2
Launch     5000
Cd         BRZL: .28
           FRS:  .29
Area       1.97
Tires      215/45R17
Gearing    3.626 2.188 1.541 1.213 1 0.767 / 4.1
Mass (kg): BRZL: 1348 (with driver)
           FRS:  1340 (with driver)

Results:

car  0-60  1/4
BRZL 6.92  15.31
FRS  6.91  15.31

That's with the FT86 hitting 60 MPH in 2nd gear. If it shifted to 3rd before hitting second (like the NC2 does and the ND will unless its gearing is taller), then the BRZ does 0-60 in 7.14 and the FRS in 7.12. Conversely, if the ND is geared tall enough to hit 60 in 2nd, it ought to be able to do 0-60 in 6.92 sec.

Different testers get different times, and we've seen both the Miata NC2 the FT86 do 0-60 in the low 6s and the 1/4 mile in high 14s. But going by the specifications (and a lot of educated guesses) and using the same formulas, the ND should be only one or two tenths slower.

It'll be interesting to see how it does in the real world. Many think the NC2 is slightly underrated, which the spreadsheet results support (looking at its on-paper vs real-world performance compared to the FT86). If the ND is underrated, it could match or even beat the FT86.

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

With spec on ND if the gear selection is as good as NC it will be ahead of 86 on tech track cuz our torque dip....

Not sure if serious.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Going by the rumored specifications, the 155 HP ND should be a tad faster than the 167 HP NC2, which is about as fast as the FT86 (though many think the NC2 is underrated).

Originally Posted by Deslock

Results (with a couple values for mass and shift points):

car     kg    hp   lbf*ft shift 0-60  1/4
NC2L    1227  167  140    7500  7.28  15.57
NC2L    1227  167  140    7200  7.34  15.63
ND2L    1158  155  148    7000  7.18  15.49
ND2L    1158  155  148    6800  7.20  15.51
ND2L    1127  155  148    7000  7.13  15.43
ND2L    1127  155  148    6800  7.15  15.46
ND1.5L  1109  129  111    7500  7.81  16.06
ND1.5L  1086  129  111    7500  7.74  16.00

car  0-60  1/4
BRZL 6.92  15.31
FRS  6.91  15.31

Not to nitpick, but these two statements don't match. The first statement implies:

ND > NC2 = FT86

But your second statement clearly shows:

FT86 > ND > NC2

I don't really care either way and until someone actually tests the Miata, this is all just useless conjecture, but just thought I'd point out why others might not be following your logic.

FWIW I agree with you that just looking at peak HP and curb weight is over-simplistic. Torque under the curve and gearing matter, as well as drivetrain losses, aero, etc.

[tahdizzle]

I can't wait for a real test too. Everything I read has the top speed of 115 mph :P

[AznBRZer]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqsX1Obm29A"]Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition Teaser - YouTube[/ame]

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

OK, you've lost me completely. What does this have to do with the thread? Or for that matter, either the Miata or the FR-S???

[AznBRZer]

Originally Posted by babydriver

OK, you've lost me completely. What does this have to do with the thread? Or for that matter, either the Miata or the FR-S???

Cue it to 8 seconds.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Not to nitpick, but these two statements don't match. The first statement implies:

ND > NC2 = FT86

But your second statement clearly shows:

FT86 > ND > NC2

I don't really care either way and until someone actually tests the Miata, this is all just useless conjecture, but just thought I'd point out why others might not be following your logic.

As I mentioned:

Originally Posted by Deslock

That's with the FT86 hitting 60 MPH in 2nd gear. If it shifted to 3rd before hitting second (like the NC2 does and the ND will unless its gearing is taller), then the BRZ does 0-60 in 7.14 and the FRS in 7.12. Conversely, if the ND is geared tall enough to hit 60 in 2nd, it ought to be able to do 0-60 in 6.92 sec.

So, going by specifications (and some educated guesses), at reasonable speeds it's: FT86 ~ ND > NC2 (where the NC2 is still pretty close to the others).

Now, consider that in the real world, it's: FT86 ~ NC2.

In the quarter mile (again, going by specs/guesses), the FT86 has a slight advantage over the ND, which has a slight advantage over the NC2. In the real world, the FT86 and NC2 are very close. Which brings us to:

Originally Posted by Deslock

It'll be interesting to see how it does in the real world. Many think the NC2 is slightly underrated, which the spreadsheet results support (looking at its on-paper vs real-world performance compared to the FT86). If the ND is underrated, it could match or even beat the FT86.

None of these cars are about straight line acceleration, but the NC2 and FT86 have plenty of oomph to have fun with. The ND ought to be about as fast (+/- a tenth or two) and I expect it'll be a blast to flog either way.

I look forward to the test drive.

[DohcTor]

When it comes to making fun engines... Honda > Toyota

The fa20 is too boring

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

When it comes to making fun engines... Honda > Toyota

The fa20 is too boring

Well its a subi engine anyway

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

When it comes to making fun engines... Honda > Toyota

The fa20 is too boring

You're in the Mazda thread bro...

[tennisfreak]

Well Miata fans looks like there might be a 200(or more)hp version of the car after all.

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles’ clone of the 2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata evolves yet again. This time around, rumors suggest that FCA’s version of the two-door roadster will be branded as a Fiat, specifically the Fiat 124 Spider.

The report comes from Auto Express¸ after the publication spoke to insiders involved with the roadster plan. Auto Express also reports that Fiat applied for U.S. trademarks on the nameplates “Fiat 124” and “Fiat 124 Spider,” further solidifying the rumor. The nameplate, of course, harkens back to the original Fiat 124 Spider produced from the late 1960s to the early 1980s. That said, Auto Express suggests that the new version will showcase styling cues from the classic 124 Spider, including its roundish headlights and rectangular taillights.

1979 Fiat 124 Spider Side Motion 1979 Fiat 124 Spider Front Corner 1979 Fiat 124 Spider Rear Three Quarter 1979 Fiat 124 Spider Front FCA and Mazda agreed to the partnership back in 2013 when the companies originally planned to badge the Miata’s twin as an Alfa Romeo. That changed when FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne recently decided that all Alfas would be built in Italy. Since the roadster will be built at Mazda’s plant in Hiroshima, Japan, FCA then suggested it would be branded as an Abarth. Given FCA’s trademark applications, the Fiat 124 Spider name seems likely to stick. Auto Express suggests that the Abarth badge could appear for a high-performance version. Reports suggest that a 1.4-liter MultiAir turbo I-4 will power both the normal and Abarth versions, with the latter tuned to make at least 200 hp. By comparison, the U.S-spec 2016 MX-5 Miata will produce 155 hp from a 2.0-liter naturally aspirated Skyactiv I-4. A lightweight, stripped-down version is rumored to be in the cards as well.
More on Automotive.com:2014 Mazda MX-5 Miata Grand Touring Road Test

With the 2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata slated to arrive in showrooms later this year, FCA’s version will likely launch in 2016.

Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/1502_rumor...#ixzz3RYrPCvur