AFR mostly rich, erratic at times

[350matt]

I'd agree that a new sensor is well worth a try as it does fit your symptoms very well

[Synack]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Tried a recalibration?

I was told some time ago that the NGK sensor AFX was the best wideband if you're not going professional lab quality. It's not too badly priced either.

A little bit late lol. Bought a new AEM UEGO sensor off Amazon and they only charged $10 for same day shipping!

[Synack]

Not sure why I thought the problem would be fixed with just the wideband being replaced. There is a standard (looks to be) O2 sensor a few inches before the wideband on my manifold and I believe that's the real culprit. I hooked up the Torque app just for giggles and noticed that the O2 sensor thinks it's reading ~14.7 at idle and only barely fluctuates when I rev it, while the brand new wideband is reading mid 12's.

Pretty much a dead giveaway that the front O2 is crap. Not to mention performance has been lacking.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Synack

Not sure why I thought the problem would be fixed with just the wideband being replaced. There is a standard (looks to be) O2 sensor a few inches before the wideband on my manifold and I believe that's the real culprit. I hooked up the Torque app just for giggles and noticed that the O2 sensor thinks it's reading ~14.7 at idle and only barely fluctuates when I rev it, while the brand new wideband is reading mid 12's.

Pretty much a dead giveaway that the front O2 is crap. Not to mention performance has been lacking.

I should have mentioned it. I was doubting that your tuner was using your aftermarket wideband as the primary input for closed loop operation.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I should have mentioned it. I was doubting that your tuner was using your aftermarket wideband as the primary input for closed loop operation.

The real question is, WHY NOT?

I know the factory O2 is relatively capable itself but widebands are still better. Would there be any reason why they would use the factory O2 over wideband?

[buddy32]

Originally Posted by Synack

The real question is, WHY NOT?

I know the factory O2 is relatively capable itself but widebands are still better. Would there be any reason why they would use the factory O2 over wideband?

Was the tuner aware? I have my wideband hooked up according to this:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57902

and the tuner had to turn the factory secondary O2 off in ECUtek. Maybe he just didn't know how you hooked it up and how he could use it?

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by Synack

The real question is, WHY NOT?

I know the factory O2 is relatively capable itself but widebands are still better. Would there be any reason why they would use the factory O2 over wideband?

Because you can't, and why would you not use the stock item for closed loop. You're only closed loop at ~14.7-14.0 on the stock maps and at those AFR the stock sensor is actually pretty good. You would have to effectively switch off OEM closed loop operation and then create a custom map to run open loop with feedback from the WBO2. It's a lot of work for bugger all gain.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Because you can't, and why would you not use the stock item for closed loop. You're only closed loop at ~14.7-14.0 on the stock maps and at those AFR the stock sensor is actually pretty good. You would have to effectively switch off OEM closed loop operation and then create a custom map to run open loop with feedback from the WBO2. It's a lot of work for bugger all gain.

Thanks for the info, you learn something new every day.

I'm about to upload a couple pics of the factory O2 that I just took out. Tell me if it looks like it's in bad shape or not.

[Synack]

[King Tut]

Did you crush it removing it? Looks pretty normal to me other than that. Throw a little anti-seize on the threads when you install the new one.

[aagun]

what is the sensor volts @ idle ?? it should 2.2v with 14.7 AFR ,

[Synack]

Originally Posted by aagun

what is the sensor volts @ idle ?? it should 2.2v with 14.7 AFR ,

That's why I bought a new one because the current one stopped reading correctly.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Did you crush it removing it? Looks pretty normal to me other than that. Throw a little anti-seize on the threads when you install the new one.

I don't know how I could've. Maybe I hit something on the highway that came up and smacked the sensor and ended up breaking it. I mean there isn't anything guarding it.

[Synack]

Well everything seems to have gotten much better and possibly fixed, just got the stock AFR O2 sensor in today and partial throttle is perfect, WOT is pretty good, and idle is decent. Probably will get better after the trims are relearned.

Hopefully time to install flex fuel E85 and the new turbo now.

Thanks for everyone's help if this truly is done.