Toyota rules out GT 86 hybrid due to projected lack of demand

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Will they? I HOPE they build the FT1. But as of right now, it's nothing but a styling exercise and a lot of wishful thinking. By you. By me. And everybody else that would like to see it on the street. But believe me, we're not in the majority. And until it's for sale at a Toyota dealership, badged as a Supra, we don't actually know what will become of the FT1. And in the meantime, we have a LONG and sad list of sports coupes that no longer exist. And an FT86 platform that isn't meeting sales expectations isn't helping the cause.

A car like the FT1 will help draw people into Toyota showrooms. And the majority of people that come in to see it, will probably drive out in a Camry or Corolla or RAV4.

There has not been an "official" confirmed yet, and do not expect one for sometime. Toyota did not confirmed FT-86 for production until a year and half (if not longer) after the first concept debut.

I think we all know they are going to built it. Toyota is already reported to be working on a second FT-1 concept and along side with a racing version.

Deja vu?







Anyways, lets please stay on topic about a hybrid 86 getting the thumbs down from Toyota.

If you guys would like to talk about FT-1 than please join the new FT1Club.com

[continuecrushing]

if they just put the prius engine in these cars we'd be set.

Of all the cars that blow past me on the freeway going 95+, its almost always a prius.
They must make tons of power.

[thill]

I never thought the hybrid engine stuff made since in the FT86 to begin with. At least in the current state of affordable hybrid technology. The whole point of the FT86 was a back to basics, fun, light(er), RWD coupe at a modest price point.

Hybrid technology most likely would have added cost and weight..

I still want to see a model that offers FI...

Although that also offers cost and weight

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

I'm just trying to share news with the forum.

Why do you even bother posting than? If you don't like whats being reported and posted, please move on.

Not hating just be nice to see some "REAL" news for once from Toyota or Subaru directly for once??? That is all thanks for what information you found although it's like almost all other news here which is all here say and so on and so on...no need to be offended I'll just be shocked when one day some "OFFICIAL" gets shared outside of a UK link based on rumours is all..

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Not hating just be nice to see some "REAL" news for once from Toyota or Subaru directly for once??? That is all thanks for what information you found although it's like almost all other news here which is all here say and so on and so on...

They quoted/got info from a Toyota official. In my book thats "real" news.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by gymratter

FT-1 concept cost Toyota a million + dollars to make. they just don't concepts to make concepts. Toyota also filled trademark for the Supra trade mark. Tada san has said it will take 5 years to built. learn to read between the lines...

I'm pretty sure it cost them a LOT more than a few million dollars to make. Even if Toyota had NO intention of making the FT-1 into the next Supra, it would make sense for them to protect the Supra name. That's a matter of routine. VW did the same thing for years when they stopped making the Scirocco.

Originally Posted by gymratter

the 86/FRS is doing just fine, just not in Europe. its selling more than any other import in its class.

There aren't a heck of a lot of cars IN this class. And there's a reason for it. And that IS the whole problem. Because very few people buy light weight, RWD sports coups. Fuji expected to produce 100,000 cars in the first year of production. It took them two. That's not 'fine'. And it's already dangerously close to being a subsidy car, like the MX-5 or 370Z--a car that's produced and continually updated as a matter of prestige. And as a catalyst to get people into showrooms. The fact that Toyota have now loosely commented that future versions of the 86 with hybrid power or a drop top are unlikely to be seen anytime soon should make this clear.

Originally Posted by gymratter

doesn't FRS do the same? its a niche product for that reason.

Let's hope so. But the jury is out.

Originally Posted by gymratter

Lets take the FT1 away for a moment. how about the LFA? Toyota spent tons of money on that project that they lose money one but than won't do a 2nd gen FRS/86? right...

The LFA is the ultimate expression of a car built as a technology exercise. For goodness sakes they only built 500 of them. And it took HOW long to go into production? It was originally conceived as a tie-in with Toyota's F1 V10 engine at a time where there was simply a LOT more money floating around. But by the time it was produced, Toyota was out of F1, the markets had crashed and it's a miracle the car was produced at all. But I suppose at that point, nearly all the R&D was done and it made no sense to cancel the project. but suffice to say, there won't be another one.

Originally Posted by gymratter

Also you probably know nothing about Toyota's current CEO

I don't. Not a thing. Either way, @vh_supra26 is right. Let's keep it on topic.

[gymratter]

this way seems faster :p

Originally Posted by jjaisli

I'm pretty sure it cost them a LOT more than a few million dollars to make. Even if Toyota had NO intention of making the FT-1 into the next Supra, it would make sense for them to protect the Supra name. That's a matter of routine. VW did the same thing for years when they stopped making the Scirocco.

For years they actually let the Supra trademark die

There aren't a heck of a lot of cars IN this class. And there's a reason for it. And that IS the whole problem. Because very few people buy light weight, RWD sports coups. Fuji expected to produce 100,000 cars in the first year of production. It took them two. That's not 'fine'. And it's already dangerously close to being a subsidy car, like the MX-5 or 370Z--a car that's produced and continually updated as a matter of prestige. And as a catalyst to get people into showrooms. The fact that Toyota have now loosely commented that future versions of the 86 with hybrid power or a drop top are unlikely to be seen anytime soon should make this clear.

What are you talking about? Nissan wants back in (IDx) and Honda (new S660 and S2000). Like i said before, they overprotected sales. but that doesnt mean its a flop. they also never said a drop top isnt coming. Subaru just doesnt want to built it.

Let's hope so. But the jury is out.

FRS is helping the crappy Scion brand

The LFA is the ultimate expression of a car built as a technology exercise. For goodness sakes they only built 500 of them. And it took HOW long to go into production? It was originally conceived as a tie-in with Toyota's F1 V10 engine at a time where there was simply a LOT more money floating around. But by the time it was produced, Toyota was out of F1, the markets had crashed and it's a miracle the car was produced at all. But I suppose at that point, nearly all the R&D was done and it made no sense to cancel the project. but suffice to say, there won't be another one.

4 years from concept to production for the LFA. cars like the C7 took 5 years, just saying. Honda had everything on the V10 HVS completed and pulled the plug at the last min. my point is that Toyota has made much more costly sports cars so theres no reason why they wont make a 2nd gen 86/FRS

Also look up Lexus LF-LC and RC-F. much lower selling cars but Toyota still made it

I don't. Not a thing. Either way, @vh_supra26 is right. Let's keep it on topic.

its called Google my friend, but heres a quick write up.

Akio Toyoda is the current CEO. he push for projects like the LFA and 86. he is a true car enthusiast. he has also said sales were not Toyota's #1 goal. he said something along these lines... if you make fun, good looking, and enjoyable cars, than being #1 in sales will come naturally.

if you think crappy Euro sales are going to kill off the 86 and future Toyota sports car than you are mistaken :p

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

They quoted/got info from a Toyota official. In my book thats "real" news.

Lol ok man I'll leave ya be but I just went to Toyota and Subarus web page and "zero" found on their news pages as well on their official blogs and FB pages absolutely nothing for news on the 86 and future plans or discussions.

Be well, believe it or not I'm not trying to offend you or anyone just we need a "rumours and unofficial" news and coffee chat lounge in this forum I think for those wanting to discuss things that could be, should be, but most likely never will be..

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Lol ok man I'll leave ya be but I just went to Toyota and Subarus web page and "zero" found on their news pages as well on their official blogs and FB pages absolutely nothing for news on the 86 and future plans or discussions.

Be well, believe it or not I'm not trying to offend you or anyone just we need a "rumours and unofficial" news and coffee chat lounge in this forum I think for those wanting to discuss things that could be, should be, but most likely never will be..

Well before FT-1 made its debut, there was also "zero" info on Toyota's news room. But Tada san was already mentioning the new flagship sports car in many interviews.

Just because it isn't on Toyota and Subarus web page, doesn't mean the interview never took place. Many "rumors" have came true, just saying.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by gymratter

my point is that Toyota has made much more costly sports cars so theres no reason why they wont make a 2nd gen 86/FRS
its called Google my friend, but heres a quick write up.

No reason? You mean the same Toyota that killed off the MR2, the Celica and the Supra? I'm sorry I don't share your faith. And a google search isn't going to change that. So long as Toyota are selling a million Corollas a year and they have the capital to push through the personal indulgences of Akio Toyota or Tetsuya Tada, they'll do so. When the money is tight, they won't.

Originally Posted by gymratter

Akio Toyoda is the current CEO. he push for projects like the LFA and 86. he is a true car enthusiast. he has also said sales were not Toyota's #1 goal. he said something along these lines... if you make fun, good looking, and enjoyable cars, than being #1 in sales will come naturally.

That's it? a bunch of PR rubbish? Sorry to say, but he can make all the fun, good looking cars he wants. If new car sales tank like they did back in 2009~2010, projects that don't make money are going to be cut. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by gymratter

if you think crappy Euro sales are going to kill off the 86 and future Toyota sports car than you are mistaken

No I don't. But as I already said, it's about only selling half as many as they anticipated. Regardless of where they're selling them. And I take the lack of future powertrain editions to be a bad sign. Same with the lack of a convertible. Would I be interested in a drop top FR-S? No. Would I buy a hybrid FR-S? No. But it means Toyota don't think enough people would to warrant their development cost. Just as they MAY be questioning an updated GT86 in 2017.

[gymratter]

still faster this way

Originally Posted by jjaisli

No reason? You mean the same Toyota that killed off the MR2, the Celica and the Supra? I'm sorry I don't share your faith. And a google search isn't going to change that. So long as Toyota are selling a million Corollas a year and they have the capital to push through the personal indulgences of Akio Toyota or Tetsuya Tada, they'll do so. When the money is tight, they won't.

That was under a different CEO.... they have tons of money they are just sitting on. Toyota has always been the most profitable and highest value automaker so idk what are trying to say.

[/B]That's it? a bunch of PR rubbish? Sorry to say, but he can make all the fun, good looking cars he wants. If new car sales tank like they did back in 2009~2010, projects that don't make money are going to be cut. Simple as that.

thats actually BS. Akio pushed the Toyota board to built both the LFA and 86. you do know that whole Lexus line doesn't really make any money for Toyota.... but they still do it.

No I don't. But as I already said, it's about only selling half as many as they anticipated. Regardless of where they're selling them. And I take the lack of future powertrain editions to be a bad sign. Same with the lack of a convertible. Would I be interested in a drop top FR-S? No. Would I buy a hybrid FR-S? No. But it means Toyota don't think enough people would to warrant their development cost. Just as they MAY be questioning an updated GT86 in 2017.

Um why the hell would Toyota make a hybrid $35k FRS to began with? this is a cheap affordable car. keeping it as it makes sense. again, there has been no official word on a drop top so... ok i never said there was a market for a hybrid did i????

[Levi]

Guys, don't really don't expect any more powerful GT86/BRZ. Maybe some special "track editions" with rollcage, weight loss and bolt-ons (brakes, suspension, etc...) but nothing more. Don't know if Toyota broke-even, made profit or made loss, but it is unlikely for Toyota to build anything new on the GT86. Toyota has a new partner, BMW, which like Toyota and Honda, for a long time didn't have any true sports car. The co-developped platform will underpin all Toyota/Lexus and BMW sports cars, with exception of the Lexus LFA II.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Levi

Guys, don't really don't expect any more powerful GT86/BRZ. Maybe some special "track editions" with rollcage, weight loss and bolt-ons (brakes, suspension, etc...) but nothing more. Don't know if Toyota broke-even, made profit or made loss, but it is unlikely for Toyota to build anything new on the GT86. Toyota has a new partner, BMW, which like Toyota and Honda, for a long time didn't have any true sports car. The co-developped platform will underpin all Toyota/Lexus and BMW sports cars, with exception of the Lexus LFA II.

Z4 :p

but yeah i get what you are saying.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

No reason? You mean the same Toyota that killed off the MR2, the Celica and the Supra?

Um that happen under Hiroshi Okuda (1995-1999), Fujio Cho (1999-2005), and Katsuaki Watanabe (2005-2009).