follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions

Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-14-2023, 03:04 AM   #687
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz View Post
Ah, I see Tesla made the move to lithium accessory batteries back in 2021. The Li-ions batteries already go for 2X ~$200 more per unit than lead acid and the price increase wouldn't be dropping with more EVs coming on the market every year. Part of this strategy is about lessons learned and pulling value back lost from the original material change on past vehicles assuming this happens on more than one model. $200 more per battery on 1 million cars adds up fast. The engineering change cost is still getting ignored, but it easier to estimate material costs so I get it.
Wait, even if it was to be 48v on all new model wouldn't there be lack of reverse compatibility with the electronics of older models? So now you need to manufacture, and store parts for two voltage architectures??

The weight savings still isn't going to make a difference in the real world. It less than the average American woman.lol The general public doesn't care how much the car weighs. The Cyber truck is already 3tons+, a model S is 4600lbs. What is a 130lb going to do?
You are correct on some auto makers have been using aluminum already. I think Toyota is using it in their Rav4 Hybrid harness, check out "cablegate" sometime. But not worth delving more into as Tesla never said they were going to make use it.
FWIW, the lithium battery is a CATL battery, who is already a supplier, and it is designed to last the life of the car instead of the lead acid battery that needs replacing every four years. The price is a wash for the buyer, if not a savings on servicing.

The engineering change cost wasn't ignored. I said the savings would be immediate, and it would grow even more over time (as the industry/suppliers move components to 48V). Here is a larger analysis below. Multiple suppliers are already developing or have developed 48v components for cars that have 48v systems for mild-hybrids, so that those manufactures don't need a 12v system as well as a 48v system.

https://www.frost.com/frost-perspect...mission-norms/

The parts point is ehh. Apple was making a new iPhone every year. Tesla is constantly changing their cars like I don't think a single car is the same as the year before. There are 48v RVs, e-bikes, solar, etc. They can build old parts and new parts just the same. They are still building stuff for vehicles sixty years old. I don't see this as a real problem.

The weight benefit will matter for sports cars, but weight isn't the main point. It might result in a negligible improvement in range having a few hundred pounds less weight to carry. It is for a cost savings and electrical system performance. There is ZERO chance that Tesla did this change without knowing full well it was going to be better for their bottom line, or why do it? Do you really believe they are just speculating and hoping there could be benefits?




This is 8 years old.
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2023, 03:07 AM   #688
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2023, 10:54 PM   #689
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Not 3mm panels... 1.8mm doors and 1.4mm hood and some other spots, which is why the crash test has the hood bending the way it does.

__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2023, 10:57 PM   #690
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2023, 04:57 PM   #691
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Pointless light show:

__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2023, 05:00 PM   #692
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,905
Thanks: 39,092
Thanked 25,129 Times in 11,462 Posts
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Pointless light show:
Not pointless, this is how Skynet starts. Make it a cute connected experience and the next thing you know they are ripping your arms off to the sounds of The Final Countdown.
__________________
Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (12-21-2023)
Old 12-21-2023, 05:27 PM   #693
wbradley
Sarcastic SOB
 
wbradley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S M6, '23 Volvo V60 CC
Location: Thornhill Ontario
Posts: 4,638
Thanks: 1,361
Thanked 2,852 Times in 1,640 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Garage
Tesla is all about demonstrating how innovative and ahead of the curve they are.
Meanwhile, other companies are establishing their place in the electrified vehicle market and are doing it with all privately raised money. Don't forget Tesla received massive government loans through the dept. of energy, iirc $550M at one point. There will reach a time when the electrification itself becomes pretty well established, probably everyone being able to access Superchargers etc. Consistency in the cooling, range, battery life, ability to resist spontaneous combustion, etc. At that point it will get back to who makes a car that you find attractive and useful and that you can easily live with.
I went with Volvo mild hybrid since my mileage is very low these days, but the deal maker was Android Auto.
__________________
5:AD kit, HKS V1+ S/C, ECUtek dyno'd, Ohlins MP20, Magnaflow cb, Revworks UEL, Topspeed overpipe, Pinnacle Ceramic tint, VG shark fin, HID's, yellow DRL's, full LEDs, red floor lights, Homelink mirror, trunk lid liner, Perrin LWCP, Valenti smoked, Flossy Grip Tape Shorty, GT86 plaque, lighted vanity mirror, Michelin PSS, Project mU +800, DOT4 fluid, 720 Form GTF1 17x8&9, stitched leather bits, EZ valve.

Last edited by wbradley; 12-21-2023 at 10:15 PM.
wbradley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2023, 07:59 PM   #694
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,905
Thanks: 39,092
Thanked 25,129 Times in 11,462 Posts
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
And now, it floats... can't believe all the stuff swirling around the Cybertruck becoming amphibious with the addition of some new seals to the doors.

This from the folks that brought you baseball proof windows. They definitely know how to keep the free marketing flowing (and of course I'm helping).

I love the video of the person being "amazed" by the CT driving in hard sand in the surf about the depth of a georgia highway mud puddle.

https://electrek.co/2023/11/21/tesla...o-water-float/
__________________
Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2023, 10:27 PM   #695
wbradley
Sarcastic SOB
 
wbradley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S M6, '23 Volvo V60 CC
Location: Thornhill Ontario
Posts: 4,638
Thanks: 1,361
Thanked 2,852 Times in 1,640 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Garage
Then there's the spectacle factor. If you drive one, do you mind being a spectacle on the road with the vehicle. I was never a fan of the original Hummers, just another platform for d*#k measuring contests. Where I live, AMG G wagons are common. I'm not sure that the predominantly female demographic I see driving those trucks would make the switch, it's just too much truck tor them, despite the initial flash. This will be a predominantly male driven vehicle , I'm thinking.
The lifestyle thing will apply more where the weather is warmer and without harsh winters. It would suck to run out of juice at the top of a mountain range or in a massive blizzard though. No jerry can will rescue you. But you can sleep in the tent until you're rescued. That tent reminds me of another beauty, Pontiac Aztec
__________________
5:AD kit, HKS V1+ S/C, ECUtek dyno'd, Ohlins MP20, Magnaflow cb, Revworks UEL, Topspeed overpipe, Pinnacle Ceramic tint, VG shark fin, HID's, yellow DRL's, full LEDs, red floor lights, Homelink mirror, trunk lid liner, Perrin LWCP, Valenti smoked, Flossy Grip Tape Shorty, GT86 plaque, lighted vanity mirror, Michelin PSS, Project mU +800, DOT4 fluid, 720 Form GTF1 17x8&9, stitched leather bits, EZ valve.
wbradley is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to wbradley For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (12-22-2023)
Old 12-22-2023, 08:16 AM   #696
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,905
Thanks: 39,092
Thanked 25,129 Times in 11,462 Posts
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbradley View Post
It would suck to run out of juice at the top of a mountain range or in a massive blizzard though. No jerry can will rescue you. But you can sleep in the tent until you're rescued. That tent reminds me of another beauty, Pontiac Aztec
Well you could always deploy some solar panels and trickle charge it for a month, or maybe carry a generator and a jerry can or two...
__________________
Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2023, 12:10 AM   #697
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
And now, it floats... can't believe all the stuff swirling around the Cybertruck becoming amphibious with the addition of some new seals to the doors.

This from the folks that brought you baseball proof windows. They definitely know how to keep the free marketing flowing (and of course I'm helping).

I love the video of the person being "amazed" by the CT driving in hard sand in the surf about the depth of a georgia highway mud puddle.

https://electrek.co/2023/11/21/tesla...o-water-float/
You know, I was wondering if they messed up with the windows. I don't know if they decided to use extra thick laminated glass instead of tempered glass, because that is what it looks like, but tempered glass is extremely strong, so yeah, maybe they messed up on that one. Also, people have had to break through the glass when the battery/system went down because everything works on electric (I think there is mechanical backup), and they couldn't open the doors, so I don't know about laminated side windows. Maybe it is similar to tint, but stronger.

On the plus side, maybe it'll make thieves less likely to try to break through the window.
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2023, 02:00 AM   #698
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
For reference (link below), this video shows how hard tempered glass is normally, yet the Cybertruck fractures like a laminated windshield.



https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=342785747109983
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2023, 04:30 PM   #699
wbradley
Sarcastic SOB
 
wbradley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S M6, '23 Volvo V60 CC
Location: Thornhill Ontario
Posts: 4,638
Thanks: 1,361
Thanked 2,852 Times in 1,640 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Garage
The buying public in North America have made it clear that pickup trucks are the Swiss army knife vehicle for their lives based on sales numbers. How long has the F150 sold over half a million (more like >600K+) per year? A pickup is a large SUV cab with a flexible use rear cargo area isolated from the cabin. For North American companies plus Toyota, there are big stakes involved. Look at the average sticker price on pickup trucks and combined with units produced you get a pretty good idea how much of the pie they represent. What's changed though, is that the upper range of pricing for mass-production pickup trucks has well exceeded the six figure USD price from multiple suppliers. There are several contenders. So, pickup trucks are being sold as the ultimate do all vehicle.
__________________
5:AD kit, HKS V1+ S/C, ECUtek dyno'd, Ohlins MP20, Magnaflow cb, Revworks UEL, Topspeed overpipe, Pinnacle Ceramic tint, VG shark fin, HID's, yellow DRL's, full LEDs, red floor lights, Homelink mirror, trunk lid liner, Perrin LWCP, Valenti smoked, Flossy Grip Tape Shorty, GT86 plaque, lighted vanity mirror, Michelin PSS, Project mU +800, DOT4 fluid, 720 Form GTF1 17x8&9, stitched leather bits, EZ valve.

Last edited by wbradley; 12-24-2023 at 05:02 PM.
wbradley is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to wbradley For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (12-27-2023)
Old 12-25-2023, 02:54 AM   #700
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,884
Thanks: 5,668
Thanked 5,807 Times in 3,300 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbradley View Post
The buying public in North America have made it clear that pickup trucks are the Swiss army knife vehicle for their lives based on sales numbers. How long has the F150 sold over half a million (more like >600K+) per year? A pickup is a large SUV cab with a flexible use rear cargo area isolated from the cabin. For North American companies plus Toyota, there are big stakes involved. Look at the average sticker price on pickup trucks and combined with units produced you get a pretty good idea how much of the pie they represent. What's changed though, is that the upper range of pricing for mass-production pickup trucks has well exceeded the six figure USD price from multiple suppliers. There are several contenders. So, pickup trucks are being sold as the ultimate do all vehicle.
Don’t forget, trucks are also cheap. Someone can buy a Maverick for $20k. A 2022 F150 starts at $29k, and before the pandemic, a 2019 F250 started at $32k, and it was $36k for 4WD F250. That is pretty cheap if you compare the vehicle size, engine size, 4WD capability, turbo diesel power and gas mileage, etc. A 2023 F250 starts at $43k now—up quite a bit. Trucks are still a good value.

I don’t know if Cybertruck is playing the same value game. Fast, sure. Towing range and payload is not great for the price. Features are atypical. Tech is good, but it is relying on the weird factor, acceleration and the tech, which is fine for the premium, but this isn’t great value or the same type of Swiss Army Knife as other trucks, so it is a bummer the price jumped by $50%. Their vehicles don’t do well at luxury pricing levels. Maybe this will be the exception, but I think not. Musk was probably right when he said they dug their own grave. They do better at premium prices.
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
knowitallsavingtheworld, longwindedcocksuckers

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which truck? EAGLE5 Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 35 11-18-2014 02:49 AM
Help me help my mom buy a truck bdanisi Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 18 11-10-2013 12:45 AM
UPS Truck vs. My new FR-S Bullschmidt91 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 99 03-26-2013 09:43 PM
GBS Premium 6MT Available, just came off the truck... Opie BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics 0 09-12-2012 03:53 PM
BMW M3 truck!?! RRnold Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 15 04-03-2011 04:47 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.