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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
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05-15-2020, 03:07 PM | #15 |
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If you believe someone needs knowledge, then why did you offer ridicule instead of information.
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05-15-2020, 03:11 PM | #16 | |
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So back to the 1 -> 2 and 2 -> 1 change issues, this is also a function of the ratios and the engineering of the gearbox itself. All modern OEM gearboxes I've come across have 1st and 2nd sharing a shift fork. Same with 3rd and 4th, then 5th and 6th.
The info I had in this italicized space was all wrong because I didn't think through my logic and flipped a calculation super duper early which led to correct assumptions validated by incorrect data. Thanks to @Ultramaroon for reminding me torque multiplication is the output side, and rotational speed is the input side, hence why we get the wonderful money-shift. Per his later post: Quote:
Additionally, on downshifts a rev-match while the transmission is decoupled gains some benefits from friction. The selectors are all spun up a bit by the output shaft speed as you give the input shaft some extra RPMs. It's not perfect, but in a 2 -> 1 shift it makes it a lot easier. In my 86 it's easy to hear the faint whrrRRRRRR of gear teeth speeding up as rotation is matched when selecting 1st from any other gear with the clutch in. Not sure if that will last forever, but there was a similar thread a while back where someone else mentioned they had the noise and mine still does it 30,000 miles in. All that said, you can't fight math and physics, especially friction in a cold gearbox (even room temp is a little cold for a transmission) vs an operating temp gearbox. The only real suggestion I have is to be a little more patient or drive it like a 5 speed using only 2nd through 6th. That way you skip the massive delta and associated notchiness that comes with selecting 1 -> 2 or anything -> 1. Last edited by anticubus; 05-16-2020 at 10:11 AM. |
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05-15-2020, 03:14 PM | #17 | |
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Also, I too am curious as to why FI would change how a manual transmission shifts. Please explain why that would make a difference. |
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05-15-2020, 03:36 PM | #18 | |
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I think it worked. There's some really good stuff here already.
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05-15-2020, 03:37 PM | #19 |
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05-15-2020, 04:43 PM | #20 | |
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input 4000 -> output 4000/3.6 = 1111 (ish) RPM. Follow down for the rest of the gears. That doesn't invalidate your observations overall, especially the whirring sound you hear and resistance felt when downshifting into second and especially first. The reason that sound is important is because for any shift, the input shaft is being driven by the output via the syncro clutch. The lower the gear, the greater the mechanical disadvantage through which the syncro clutch must drive the input. The viscous drag of the gear oil is amplified in the lower gears, and the syncro clutches in this transmission are as compact as possible for a conventional gearbox. There's more to it. The layout of the gearbox with respect to what the 1-2 syncro clutches must drive also plays into the picture.
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05-16-2020, 10:06 AM | #21 | |
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My takeaway is I can't be trusted to write this sort of technical post in layman's terms during my lunch break. Thanks for keeping me honest. |
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05-16-2020, 03:39 PM | #22 |
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LOL... Your writeup was excellent. By your description, I can tell that you're visualizing the mechanics perfectly. It's just a dumb arithmetic error. I made almost the same mistake yesterday scaling up the quantities of chemicals for our cheesy, above-ground pool.
Now let's see whether or not we still have OP's attention.
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06-01-2020, 08:39 PM | #23 | |
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I'm not sure why you're tasking me on humility. What have posted that I am boasting about? Is it the supercharger? I thought that was necessary information being that I was asking about shifting under load. With the SC the load on the drive train would be higher than a stock car would experience. I received valuable information about the mounts flexing. Which would be worst with the increased load. Every car I've owned has it's own idiosyncrasies. Understanding how a transmission works or responds in one car doesn't it will be the same in others. So I am here asking questions on a subject I don't have experience with. It doesn't mean I don't know how a transmission works. Sorry for the misunderstanding. |
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06-01-2020, 08:48 PM | #24 |
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I want to thank everyone for their input. The driveline moving under load I will have to address later. The main issue was caused by over filling the transmission. I got it back down to the correct level and now it shifts great. I swear I read it was 3 quarts. I knew I could count on the community to help solve the problem.
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06-01-2020, 09:03 PM | #25 |
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06-01-2020, 11:52 PM | #26 | |
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It takes humility to admit not knowing. Your claim that it takes special vehicle-specific understanding is an easy tell. Understanding how a manual transmission works comes before discussing idiosyncratic differences. Explain the increased load of a disengaged clutch. "Sorry for the misunderstanding." is not an apology. It's a passive-aggressive swipe. I save my apologies for things which I can take responsibility.
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