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View Poll Results: What name should Toyota use for the production Toyota FT-1?
Supra gets my vote! 367 74.59%
I don't know, but its time for a new name. 125 25.41%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2018, 01:39 PM   #3137
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
No manual transmission available. Did Tada-san say the above with a straight face???

Damn, I think you whine more than my 3 year old. I feel bad for your wife.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:40 PM   #3138
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I think a Dual clutch trans over the manual would seal the deal on a future purchase for me. I love a manual but I like technology and fast shifts. I've been driving a manual for a long time in many cars. Time to grow with the times, for me.
BMW wanted to completely phase out the dual clutch and manual with automatics for a while now.

Although I'm pretty sure there's a reason why Toyota never invested into dual clutch gearboxes, it's probably due to durability and reliability and cost reasons.

How would you guys feel if and when Toyota does decide to offer a manual with the new Supra, but only for the base 4 cylinder model?
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:58 PM   #3139
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Honestly I'm looking more forward to the 4-cylinder than the 6. Less weight, better weight distribution, way less $$$...

Yes! So how about this:
2-seat FT86 with rear wheels moved 10" forward. Instant 2600 lb. 50/50 sports car! Why not?!
how much less do you think it will be? the price differences between the TT and NA Supra was like $10k. so assuming the 6 cylinder cost $50k-$55k i would think a 4 cylinder model would be around $40k-$45k. and that begs the question, would anyone really pay that much for the reportedly 262hp 4 cylinder model?
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:08 PM   #3140
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The 6 cylinder will be over $60K, I believe. So, if there is a $15K difference between the 6 and 4 then yes, I think there will be a market for it.....if it comes here.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:10 PM   #3141
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how much less do you think it will be? the price differences between the TT and NA Supra was like $10k. so assuming the 6 cylinder cost $50k-$55k i would think a 4 cylinder model would be around $40k-$45k. and that begs the question, would anyone really pay that much for the reportedly 262hp 4 cylinder model?
look at the 4C
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:24 PM   #3142
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The 6 cylinder will be over $60K, I believe. So, if there is a $15K difference between the 6 and 4 then yes, I think there will be a market for it.....if it comes here.
the Z4 already cost that much, you would think Toyota will price their version a little less? so you would be willing to pay that much, $45k? wouldnt a $30k 370Z or a $55k C7 (you can get them in the high 40s) be a better buy? again, i would point to history where the turbo Supra almost outsold it's NA counterpart like 2:1.

just my opinion, but Toyota should price the I6 Supra around the C7 and not above it.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:29 PM   #3143
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Eh, the 4C is over $55K and is more like a civilized Lotus Elise than it is a Cayman. The Cayman can be used as a daily without a problem. The Supra 4 looks to be that kind of a car.

We see people on this very forum taking a $30K 86 or BRZ and then adding FI and everything that comes with it which puts the modified price of the car near $40K. With the Supra 4 you would get factory reliability, a warranty and probably a lot more bells and whistle for not a whole lot more.

I do not think for a moment that the Supra is going to be a big seller but I do think that there are those that will buy both the 4 and the 6. Enough so to keep it in production longer than the 4C.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:37 PM   #3144
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personally i would rather see a stripped out version with the I6 as an entry level model for those that are considered about weight and price. kinda like with the SE Supra, no leather, powerseats, heated/cool seats, navigation system, wing, and etc.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:41 PM   #3145
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so you would be willing to pay that much, $45k?
just my opinion, but Toyota should price the I6 Supra around the C7 and not above it.
Me? Heck no! I have already said that the Supra will not be on my shopping list. I am saying that, IMO, the 4 will sell at that price. The low end Cayman is a turbo 4, cost $55K and it sells.

I would buy the Corvette instead but I would probably go C6. I have never really liked the looks of the C7 personally. And, if I was in the market for a $40K car, instead of the Supra 4, I would probably go with a Camaro SS1 or Mustang GT. But there are a lot of people that still look down on American cars who will opt for the Supra. To be honest, the BMW drivetrain is a major turn-off for me. I have had it with German engineered cars!
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:00 PM   #3146
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Originally Posted by Rampage View Post
What stood out the most to me was that more than once he talked about how "expensive" certain processes were. That is beginning to make me wonder if my $55-63K estimate on price might be a little low. They are targeting the Cayman which is $55-67K. They cannot afford to go much higher than that if they want the car to sell.
If this Supra has performance on par with (any) Porsche sports cars, there's no way it'll be priced similarly. I'm sorry, but Toyota doesn't have that brand cache and outside of a few nutjobs it won't sell much that way. Personally I'll believe any performance claims when I see it in print, verified by a 3rd party.

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I asked that question.

Tada san said, “we haven’t given up on the 86, and for people who want to row gears and kick clutches and fly sideways, there is this option. We want you to be enjoying the ZN6 with all the flamboyant driving”

So I’m assuming that it’s priority matters currently.
The A90 and the focus was to first research and make it the best performing package on a European cuicuit, and hone the car to sharpness and precision. We must concentrate on that first, and foremost. Advanced differentials and dynamics all coupled to focus on this. Perhaps we can see later, provisions are there for a manual, integrated in the design, but it simply wasn’t the focus at this time to develop something archaic.
I get it. With electronics integration of things to assist stability, and a fast, crisp 8 speed paddle shift, a levered 6 speed and 3rd pedal wouldn’t have a chance at matching the speeds on a complex and fast raceway today...

But if Tada san says there’s “provisions” it means there’s a way.
So if you want a manual they're basically saying "here's a nice budget entry car but we're not interested in your business otherwise." If they're so intent on competing with Porsche maybe it would be wise of them to pay more attention to what Porsche offers.

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I’m sure Toyota thought about the feasibility long before sticking a billion bucks into the project. . If anything the reason A80 is rare today is because that didn’t sell well when it was new. Toyota isn’t vamping up the line to crank out these cars in huge volumes, therefore... unless we as consumers respond otherwise. Then again the 86/BRZ sort of doubled the expected sales than planned, so who knows. I’m sure Toyota has scalability too to meet whatever the demand maybe.

Also I don’t think the Cayman was mentioned for promotional reasons. Because they’ve actually beaten the 911 CarreraS with it already in testing,haha. But I’ll let you win if the marketing guys at Toyota USA puts the word “Porsche” in any of their brochures lol.

I’ll tell you a story though. When Tada san initially told BMW that they wanted to target the Porsche, BMW told the Toyota people, “there’s the door, and Porsche is 80km West, that way... They can help you”
It took a while before BMW said “let’s do this” to Tada san.

Whatever that meant, engineers in Germany don’t take Porsche’s lightly.
And that each firm in Germany have a very adamant method and indenting to making and preserving a brand unique.
I'm not calling you a liar, but I don't believe for one moment it outperforms a 911. Not unless they actually focused on lightweight and deliver a car that comes in sub 3000 lb.

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..in some ways the car is shaping up to be pretty exciting but I still do not understand how they could benchmark Porsche and lack a manual option from the get go? I thought Porsche drivers could care less about paper specs and were into the intangibles.. I fail to understand the "not as fast as an automatic" rhetoric, manual drivers don't really care about that! Then on top of that, from their benchmarking they decide to go with a ZF8 instead of a DCT..

I get TCs have come along way, but with the way everything has been positioned, it ain't like the A90 is going to be a straight line monster like a C7 Vette, which we all know has 7 gears you can row....and neither is it going to be a lightweight fighter like the 4C which has died rather quickly probably owing to the fact that it too didn't have a stick to offer.

will be interesting..
Agreed, amazing how they target Porsche but don't pay attention to how the world's most prolific sports car maker services it's fans & customers.

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BMW wanted to completely phase out the dual clutch and manual with automatics for a while now.

Although I'm pretty sure there's a reason why Toyota never invested into dual clutch gearboxes, it's probably due to durability and reliability and cost reasons.

How would you guys feel if and when Toyota does decide to offer a manual with the new Supra, but only for the base 4 cylinder model?
For $35,000 I'd be pretty interested, but otherwise no because I'm not interested in being (significantly) slower than V6 Camaros.

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how much less do you think it will be? the price differences between the TT and NA Supra was like $10k. so assuming the 6 cylinder cost $50k-$55k i would think a 4 cylinder model would be around $40k-$45k. and that begs the question, would anyone really pay that much for the reportedly 262hp 4 cylinder model?
Hell no, but I sure would find it amusing.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:08 PM   #3147
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I agree the 4C isn't the best comparison in determining the 4 cyl Supra's future but I think it does show a very limited market for RWD 4 cyl 2 seater coupes above $40 K...and it will be quite tough to compete against the Cayman as it has the brand prestige, offers a stick, has multiple trims and is flat out more exotic due to the drivetrain layout..
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:15 PM   #3148
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personally i would rather see a stripped out version with the I6 as an entry level model for those that are considered about weight and price. kinda like with the SE Supra, no leather, powerseats, heated/cool seats, navigation system, wing, and etc.
And why not a 4-cylinder version of that?
Would be even lighter-weight, have better weight distribution, and cost even less
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Old 07-24-2018, 04:24 PM   #3149
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Me? Heck no! I have already said that the Supra will not be on my shopping list. I am saying that, IMO, the 4 will sell at that price. The low end Cayman is a turbo 4, cost $55K and it sells.

I would buy the Corvette instead but I would probably go C6. I have never really liked the looks of the C7 personally. And, if I was in the market for a $40K car, instead of the Supra 4, I would probably go with a Camaro SS1 or Mustang GT. But there are a lot of people that still look down on American cars who will opt for the Supra. To be honest, the BMW drivetrain is a major turn-off for me. I have had it with German engineered cars!
yeah but the Cayman has the Porsche badge and the engine is located in the correct place.

same here, C7 looks like crap. i have own tons of BMWs. the main issues for me was electrical problems and water leakage.

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And why not a 4-cylinder version of that?
Would be even lighter-weight, have better weight distribution, and cost even less
many reasons.

1. Supra has always had 6 cylinders.
2. its suppose to be Toyota's flagship and halo car.
3. dont think BMW would allow Toyota to undercut them by that much.
4. $35k for a 4 cyl Supra? might as well close up shop on the 86. :p
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Old 07-24-2018, 04:54 PM   #3150
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many reasons.
1. Supra has always had 6 cylinders.
"Because it's always been that way" is never a good answer...
I love inline 6 for aesthetic reasons, but I4 = less weight and with engine c.g. further aft.

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2. its suppose to be Toyota's flagship and halo car.
Having a 4-cylinder version does nothing to reduce or "de-halo" the 6-cylinder version. Not to me, anyway...

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3. dont think BMW would allow Toyota to undercut them by that much.
I dunno, I'm sure BMW will make more $$$ the more Toyota sells.

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4. $35k for a 4 cyl Supra? might as well close up shop on the 86. :p
$35k would be brilliant! But I bet it's north of $40k...
In any case, if a better car came along for similar $$$ to the 86 and dents its sales to the point that the 86 is 86'd, so what, now there's a better car for the same $$$!
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