Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Gearheads always thinks having a "lesser" version cheapens the car.

Just like the American pony cars ended up getting 4 banger base models. "omg no V8 its cheapened!"

Its nice to have the larger selection (opens to a wider audience, and lowers the price of entry) for the sake of the survival of the car. Gearheads may think its sacrilegious to provide such an offering as it goes against what they know of the car during its lifetime.

To me its just "the right version" vs the "wrong version". If I got a pony car, it has to have the V8. Sure the lower ones may be powerful enough, capable enough, etc but it loses the character of "the pony car".

Same as the luxury brands. 4 banger entry lux sport sedans was sacrilegious, now everyones doing it and its weird NOT to have one.
times change, this is how things are.

Theres choice now, if you don't like the choice, get the one that you find ideal. In the case of the Supra, i'd get the I6 version. Not because of "legacy" or whatever garbage buzzword you think the car has to adhere to, its more that I think that's the "right" version of the car to get.

This is an excellent post, and I agree with you.


In the case of the supra, THIS supra.....its been hyped up so much and has such a huge shadow from the MK IV....its a little surprising they're going to offer a 4 cylinder.

[Hot-Lava_Dave]

Originally Posted by Rampage

One week to go.

Who's coming to my neck of the woods for the big reveal??

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Gearheads always thinks having a "lesser" version cheapens the car.

I've been a gearhead since my earliest days on earth, and I've never really felt that way.

Its nice to have the larger selection (opens to a wider audience, and lowers the price of entry) for the sake of the survival of the car.

Indeed, why NOT offer something cool to those who don't want or need 385hp. Also, for some of us a lighter-weight model hews closer to traditional sports car ideals more so than gonzo horsepower, which is more of a musclecar or supercar thing.

Gearheads may think its sacrilegious to provide such an offering as it goes against what they know of the car during its lifetime.

Well, most of them don't remember that the original Supra was just a 6-cylinder version of the 70s Celica, and was more of a boulevardier than a real sports car or musclesportscar like the turbo MkIV. But even in the MkIV era there was the lesser non-turbo variant...

To me its just "the right version" vs the "wrong version". If I got a pony car, it has to have the V8. Sure the lower ones may be powerful enough, capable enough, etc but it loses the character of "the pony car".

Nothing wrong with having multiple versions for different people's ideas of what's right for them.

Theres choice now, if you don't like the choice, get the one that you find ideal. In the case of the Supra, i'd get the I6 version. Not because of "legacy" or whatever garbage buzzword you think the car has to adhere to, its more that I think that's the "right" version of the car to get.

For me, depending on how much lighter the 4-cylinder is, that will probably be more "right" for me.

I just hope we will have the choice...

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'll take the Camaro, you can have your Supra and we'll meet up for a good German beer somewhere.

good German beer

Belgium or a Murican craftbrew for me thx

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

If you ever get a chance to drive a sixth gen + Camaro or newer mustang you'd be surprised. I'm willing to bet, when driven close to a supra, actual position, visibility, experience.... will be quite similar.

Isn't the Supra suppose to be smaller than the 86? The Mustang and Camaro are huge. Great value for the money, so don't think I am knocking that. They are just too heavy and big for me.

[86MLR]

Hmm, Toyota selling "another" small 2 door, 4 cylinder RWD coupe.

Currently there are already a few to choose from.

So does this mean the 86 will be done and dusted?

One one hand I hope the Supra doesn't get watered down (cheapened) to appease a few, which could call an end to the 86.

On the other hand the Supra is a BMW not a Toyota.

Just like the 86 is a Subaru.

I wish Toyota (Lexus) made the Supra, sadly the people in charge of the purse strings thought it would be cheaper to rebadge a BMW.

Hell, I wish Toyota made the 86, same shell, just a better engine than the FA20, the 8AR-FTS comes to mind.

After all this rambling I want a RC 300 now.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Isn't the Supra suppose to be smaller than the 86? The Mustang and Camaro are huge. Great value for the money, so don't think I am knocking that. They are just too heavy and big for me.

Didnt say anything about their size. If you've driven one (especially a v8 or track oriented model) the size and weight kind of becomes a secondary thing. The seating position and overall feel is good.

Once comparisons start coming we will see how the new supra stacks up. It's sad that we are even bench racing it against common "muscle cars." That just shows how little the expectations of the supra are, or how far the common pony car offerings have come.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Didnt say anything about their size. If you've driven one (especially a v8 or track oriented model) the size and weight kind of becomes a secondary thing. The seating position and overall feel is good.

Once comparisons start coming we will see how the new supra stacks up. It's sad that we are even bench racing it against common "muscle cars." That just shows how little the expectations of the supra are, or how far the common pony car offerings have come.

Like you said, "when driven close to a supra, actual position, visibility, experience.... will be quite similar." I was thinking side-by-side, size comparison in terms of height, length, hood-height and seating height from the ground. If you aren't saying those things then it is a little confusing as stated.

I don't think it is sad. I think it is how far pony cars have come like you said. The new Mustang GT has a similar type of system to the D4S, it has huge amounts of power, it has IRS now, and it and the Camaro are doing great at the tract (a track with curves). The GT350 has some amazing features with that NA engine. The Camaro ZL1 1LE is killing it at the track. These won't be direct competitors due to differences in curb weight, engine displacement, overall handling, etc. Maybe a Cayman or something will be a direct competitor. But the pony cars are definitely sports cars in the same price range, so they will be general competitors for buyers who are shopping broadly in that category.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Like you said, "when driven close to a supra, actual position, visibility, experience.... will be quite similar." I was thinking side-by-side, size comparison in terms of height, length, hood-height and seating height from the ground. If you aren't saying those things then it is a little confusing as stated.

I don't think it is sad. I think it is how far pony cars have come like you said. The new Mustang GT has a similar type of system to the D4S, it has huge amounts of power, it has IRS now, and it and the Camaro are doing great at the tract (a track with curves). The GT350 has some amazing features with that NA engine. The Camaro ZL1 1LE is killing it at the track. These won't be direct competitors due to differences in curb weight, engine displacement, overall handling, etc. Maybe a Cayman or something will be a direct competitor. But the pony cars are definitely sports cars in the same price range, so they will be general competitors for buyers who are shopping broadly in that category.

No it's not. Why would size come in to that highlighted statement. Stepping from one car to the other, or driving them closely together (within days or hours) I'm saying the overall experience will be surprisingly similar. That is my belief just based on what's been doled out about the supra and what is proven about the current pony car offerings.

A four cylinder Camaro 1le is likely to be a direct performance competitor to the 4 cylinder supra.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Hmm, Toyota selling "another" small 2 door, 4 cylinder RWD coupe.

Currently there are already a few to choose from.

So does this mean the 86 will be done and dusted?

One one hand I hope the Supra doesn't get watered down (cheapened) to appease a few, which could call an end to the 86.

Sales hit a high in 2013 and continue to decline in the US. Sales for the 86/BRZ may be around 5k in the US for 2019. They either need to move on to a second generation with a 2.4L or turbo variant, or they need to move on to the next collaboration project. Unfortunately, there isn't enough money to be made on sports cars, so collaborations are their best, affordable tool to produce sports cars to appease enthusiasts and vibrate the brand.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...ru/subaru-brz/
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...ta/scion-fr-s/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

No it's not. Why would size come in to that highlighted statement. Stepping from one car to the other, or driving them closely together (within days or hours) I'm saying the overall experience will be surprisingly similar.

Because it wasn't obvious you were talking about time. Just saying. You replied to ZDan who said this:

I've been around new Mustangs and Camaros on the street and at the track for a while now, and I know they are not for me. I just like sitting lower in much smaller, shorter-wheelbase, lower-beltline cars. And I don't like being in or driving giant bricklike behemoths.

With this:

If you ever get a chance to drive a sixth gen + Camaro or newer mustang you'd be surprised. I'm willing to bet, when driven close to a supra, actual position, visibility, experience.... will be quite similar.

When you said, "When driven close to a Supra," you may have meant back to back from a Supra to a Mustang, but he was talking about dimensions and you answered in metrics like position, visibility, etc. which is about dimensions, so...yea, still confusing.

[gymratter]

Europe got an early unveiling, but the embargo is in place until Monday.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Because it wasn't obvious you were talking about time. Just saying. You replied to ZDan who said this:



With this:



When you said, "When driven close to a Supra," you may have meant back to back from a Supra to a Mustang, but he was talking about dimensions and you answered in metrics like position, visibility, etc. which is about dimensions, so...yea, still confusing.

Not my fault you didnt understand a statement and inferred something else.

The statement meant back to back the driving experience will be similar. Especially since he mentioned the low seat and beltline. They will be closer than it's being lead to believe with such comments as "giant brick like behemoths."

I never mentioned wheelbase or actual physical size in my statement, we all know that most cars will be a longer wheelbase and predictably weigh more than the Supra.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Not my fault you didnt understand a statement and inferred something else.

The statement meant back to back the driving experience will be similar. Especially since he mentioned the low seat and beltline. They will be closer than it's being lead to believe with such comments as "giant brick like behemoths."

I never mentioned wheelbase or actual physical size in my statement, we all know that most cars will be a longer wheelbase and predictably weigh more than the Supra.

Right. Silly me for reading along and assuming a cohesive and more literal dialogue was being written. I’ll work on that.

Meanwhile, I agree with @ZDan that the Supra is more of my size. Getting into pony cars, or sport sedans with that same weight and dimensions, I feel like I am in a boat. The Supra is proportional to the 86 or 370z, which don’t give me that feeling.