What can the BRZ/86 outhandle? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

CSI:86 · 06-19-2013, 12:19 AM

People are saying that even hot FWD hatches like the Golf GTI, Scirocco, Mazdaspeed 3 can outhandle a BRZ/86. I completely disagree. How can a 1500kg FWD outhandle a 1200kg RWD?

What cars in general can the twins outhandle? The WRX? Integra Type R? etc etc

bcj · 06-19-2013, 12:28 AM

Nash/Rambler Metro.
Chevy Vega
Pinto
Yugo

You really want an exhaustive list?

Enlight · 06-19-2013, 12:30 AM

If people are claiming that, there is only 1 reason why it may be true. Tires.

Keep in mind, in factory form, these things have 215 width Prius tires designed for economy, not grip. Put a proper set of tires on the FRS/BRZ and it will drive circles around most cars on the market (handling wise).

CSI:86 · 06-19-2013, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcj

Nash/Rambler Metro.
Chevy Vega
Pinto
Yugo

You really want an exhaustive list?

Yes that would be awesome

That is the purpose of this thread

forzajuve · 06-19-2013, 12:33 AM

Well we know that the FRS and BRZ handles as well as a Porsche Cayman. Pretty good place to start.

bcj · 06-19-2013, 12:36 AM

Kind of thinking that an early Fiesta or Dodge Omni could hand us asses though.
Mid engine Le Car would whomp.

BRZPDX · 06-19-2013, 12:44 AM

"people" say things from their own prospective all the time, hence critics and journalists are opinion writers. I think if you categorize cars in different aspects, and label your self where you fit in those categories, other opinions start to not matter so much.

Fun factor - What is fun to you? Top Speed, Acceleration, Cornering, Drifting, Looks, Response, etc.

Performance factor - Do you look for specific numbers? Track time, 0-60 time, 1/4 mile time, Auto-X classification, lateral G force, etc.

Bang for your Buck factor - Do you think this car has the best bang for your buck as a sports car/DD? - Fuel economy, performance to cost ratio, resell value, etc.

I'm assuming "outhandle" meaning those cars you listed had faster track times than the 86. Hence these "people" are focused on performance factors and negating the fun factor. Although "fun" is a very subjective feeling, I think a majority of car enthusiasts would agree that an FR car is usually more "fun" than FF cars.

If shaving seconds off the track time is your goal, a used Corvette Z06 and $10,000 will net you far better lap times than a brand new stock 86.

nbafandan · 06-19-2013, 12:46 AM

I think it would be easier and quicker to make list of cars that the FRS can't out handle

chaoskaze · 06-19-2013, 12:46 AM

Is it just me or ur friend mistaken the word handling for performance?

ihaskrayon · 06-19-2013, 12:46 AM

I think it depends on the setting, no?

If we're talking short track with lots of turns and no real "open" straights it'll beat a lot of cars. Like a tight autoX course. If there is any sort of straight that allows you to reach some serious speed there's no way it'll keep up.

BlaineWasHere · 06-19-2013, 01:14 AM

Tires breh.

In all honesty you can make all of those hot hatches you mentioned go really fast at autoX or the track. But they all are harsh on edge and don't like to be driven 10/10ths, that's the the FR-S is better. FR-S just marginally faster, but way more fun in the way it goes about it.

horrorbiz · 06-19-2013, 01:22 AM

Switching the tires allowed it to pull faster lap times than a WRX and Mazdaspeed 3 here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-...transformation

Edmunds did a test with new wheels which resulted in a dramatic increase in speed, plus pulling 1g on the skidpad. If you check their other track tests, you'll see that is on par with or better than some seriously impressive cars like the R8 or Panamera GTS. http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...rack-test.html

jacobzking · 06-19-2013, 01:23 AM

how about lets look at slalom times and Gs

Mister · 06-19-2013, 07:48 AM

Stock for stock an MS3 is faster around the track in the handles of a capable driver. However on a track, the 86 is easier to drive close to the edge.
My MS3 got twitchy on the very edge, lots of torque steer made it interesting to get on the gas coming off the apex. The high CG and the sitting position in it made it feel like you are getting tossed around a little more in the factory seats, but that car stuck to the road like on rails with the factory Dunlops.

My old Camaro SS had you sitting a few inches off the ground with 265 width summer tires, I'm sure the numbers were impressive on a skid pad with the sticky tires I had, but the weight and power made it much harder to drive quickly through a corner.

Outhandle is subjective, unless you have a particular test to perform on all vehicles (ie slalom or skid pad).

06-19-2013, 12:19 AM	#1
CSI:86 86 = First New Car Join Date: Apr 2013 Drives: 2013 Pegasus White Toyota 86 GTS MT Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 252 Thanks: 6 Thanked 45 Times in 24 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	What can the BRZ/86 outhandle? People are saying that even hot FWD hatches like the Golf GTI, Scirocco, Mazdaspeed 3 can outhandle a BRZ/86. I completely disagree. How can a 1500kg FWD outhandle a 1200kg RWD? What cars in general can the twins outhandle? The WRX? Integra Type R? etc etc

06-19-2013, 01:14 AM	#11
BlaineWasHere Grip>Drift Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: FRS Location: NorCal Posts: 3,472 Thanks: 782 Thanked 1,749 Times in 918 Posts Mentioned: 53 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Tires breh. In all honesty you can make all of those hot hatches you mentioned go really fast at autoX or the track. But they all are harsh on edge and don't like to be driven 10/10ths, that's the the FR-S is better. FR-S just marginally faster, but way more fun in the way it goes about it. __________________ My FR-S Build Thread!

06-19-2013, 12:30 AM	#3
Enlight Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Drives: 2013 FRS Location: Minnesota Posts: 71 Thanks: 1 Thanked 27 Times in 10 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	If people are claiming that, there is only 1 reason why it may be true. Tires. Keep in mind, in factory form, these things have 215 width Prius tires designed for economy, not grip. Put a proper set of tires on the FRS/BRZ and it will drive circles around most cars on the market (handling wise).

06-19-2013, 12:33 AM	#5
forzajuve Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: Ultramarine 86 - 6MT Location: California Posts: 533 Thanks: 184 Thanked 139 Times in 82 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Well we know that the FRS and BRZ handles as well as a Porsche Cayman. Pretty good place to start.

06-19-2013, 12:46 AM	#9
chaoskaze The Fail Boat Join Date: Aug 2011 Drives: CWP S.B. Location: LasVegas Posts: 3,028 Thanks: 4,718 Thanked 1,293 Times in 873 Posts Mentioned: 19 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Is it just me or ur friend mistaken the word handling for performance?

06-19-2013, 12:46 AM	#10
ihaskrayon The Comedian Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: SWP BRZ Limited Location: Irvine Posts: 969 Thanks: 94 Thanked 642 Times in 266 Posts Mentioned: 12 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I think it depends on the setting, no? If we're talking short track with lots of turns and no real "open" straights it'll beat a lot of cars. Like a tight autoX course. If there is any sort of straight that allows you to reach some serious speed there's no way it'll keep up.

06-19-2013, 01:22 AM	#12
horrorbiz Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: ‘22 BRZ Limited Location: CT, USA Posts: 174 Thanks: 109 Thanked 66 Times in 42 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Switching the tires allowed it to pull faster lap times than a WRX and Mazdaspeed 3 here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-...transformation Edmunds did a test with new wheels which resulted in a dramatic increase in speed, plus pulling 1g on the skidpad. If you check their other track tests, you'll see that is on par with or better than some seriously impressive cars like the R8 or Panamera GTS. http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...rack-test.html

06-19-2013, 01:23 AM	#13
jacobzking Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: White FRS Location: Dallas Posts: 181 Thanks: 21 Thanked 49 Times in 38 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	how about lets look at slalom times and Gs

06-19-2013, 07:48 AM	#14
Mister Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: Firestorm FRS Location: NH Posts: 180 Thanks: 141 Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Stock for stock an MS3 is faster around the track in the handles of a capable driver. However on a track, the 86 is easier to drive close to the edge. My MS3 got twitchy on the very edge, lots of torque steer made it interesting to get on the gas coming off the apex. The high CG and the sitting position in it made it feel like you are getting tossed around a little more in the factory seats, but that car stuck to the road like on rails with the factory Dunlops. My old Camaro SS had you sitting a few inches off the ground with 265 width summer tires, I'm sure the numbers were impressive on a skid pad with the sticky tires I had, but the weight and power made it much harder to drive quickly through a corner. Outhandle is subjective, unless you have a particular test to perform on all vehicles (ie slalom or skid pad).

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