Used FRS vs. new BRZ

[fatoni]

blaming the community for purchasing used for the death of enthusiast cars is wrong imo. what that really tells the manufacturer is that they need to do better. its been 6 years since the car came out and its the same. how is that our fault?

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I have a 2013 FR-S, which has proven to be quite dependable. I haven't seen a new FR-S or BRZ that has any changes that would tempt me to trade.


humfrz

I also own a '13 FRS and I completely agree ^

[navanodd]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A couple of years ago there was hardly a day that went by without somebody having an issue but they have pretty much dried up. That is why I figure that those that were going to already have and those that won't haven't. The odd early release issue may still pop up but much of what happens now would just be normal wear and tear that all cars accumulate over time.

Knock on wood, but my 2013 has been rock solid.

I had 1 early adopter problem: they never properly tested the frameless windows in snow and ice and they would freeze open. It was promptly fixed.

What I don't understand is the recommendation by many to stick with 2016+ if looking used. Yes, there is a consensus that some early 2013's had issues. I've never heard of anything afterwards. There were minor updates here and there with model years, but nothing substantial until the 2017 refresh.

[Token11b]

I love my 13 frs. Not sure of the build year. I'm sitting at about 61k right now so I just got out of warranty. I've got basic bolt ons. Header exhaust intake and an OFT tune. I daily drive my car every day. So far no issues with TOB, engine etc. the tune really helped though because the Rpms would drop to about 600 or lower. She's been a great car. Come don't ask for me. I've got enough comforts that I stay happy. Don't need all the fancy gauges, climate control heated seats or whatever. You can't go wrong with it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Hades

Yea, I mean if you want a new car get a new car. There's no replacement for knowing you are the only one responsible for screwing it up.

And to have farted on the seat.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by fatoni

blaming the community for purchasing used for the death of enthusiast cars is wrong imo. what that really tells the manufacturer is that they need to do better. its been 6 years since the car came out and its the same. how is that our fault?

Valid point but not changing it is not the main reason either. They are still selling just fine for a specialty car.
I didn't mean to imply that buying used was the single or even main factor in the death of a model. There are many other things to consider. If the economy goes for a shit then these will drop off the market in a heartbeat, if they leave it the same much longer interest will indeed dwindle, if somebody comes up with something that is really competitive to it they cold sit on the lots. There are probably 100 things that lead to the death of a car. The biggest one of is one that we will never know though since it is how long did they plan to make it in the first place?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

Where i live in south Florida if you do find a used one that has not been modified it is rare. You wont find many people over 23-24 that drive this car. Its mostly driven by kids who's parents have money.

That you are aware of. You probably don't hang out in the empty nester, have some cash to blow on a toy circles that are also a target demographic for these. There are probably a couple of thousand around your area and I am sure that you do not know each and every owner.

[Geese1]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That you are aware of. You probably don't hang out in the empty nester, have some cash to blow on a toy circles that are also a target demographic for these. There are probably a couple of thousand around your area and I am sure that you do not know each and every owner.

I'll be 46 by the time my car arrives. Married, no kids, but this is also going to be my daily driver so not like it's a weekend toy. Don't think I'm the primary market for this car, but other than the obvious, I'm not sure what other markets Toyota and Subaru were aiming for, so maybe I do fall right in with their plans?

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by Geese1

I'll be 46 by the time my car arrives. Married, no kids, but this is also going to be my daily driver so not like it's a weekend toy. Don't think I'm the primary market for this car, but other than the obvious, I'm not sure what other markets Toyota and Subaru were aiming for, so maybe I do fall right in with their plans?

Although they wanted this car to improve both brand's youth demographics, overall from what I've seen this car's demographics is surprisingly diverse. In some ways this car appeals to an older car guy's thinking because this car is a lot more simple than the majority of cars out there. The way it drives is closer to how older cars used to be than the modern ones. Ultimately, this car has always been an enthusiast's car, if you're an enthusiast I don't think it matters young or old. Heck its not even a bloke's car as enough women own and drive one too. Attaching a stereotype to the people who drive this car isn't easy thus why none has caught on, unlike the Mustang or MX-5.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Geese1

I'll be 46 by the time my car arrives. Married, no kids, but this is also going to be my daily driver so not like it's a weekend toy. Don't think I'm the primary market for this car, but other than the obvious, I'm not sure what other markets Toyota and Subaru were aiming for, so maybe I do fall right in with their plans?

In the old articles Toyota/Subaru state several times that the FRS was targeted at the young, up and coming professional and student demographics. The BRZ was aimed at the older crowd up to and including the retired or semi retired group that had disposable income and and interest in a sport and fun yet still usable car. The thought that these cars were all meant for teenagers and collage students is way off base. Just watch all the commercials and see what you think the average age is (Mid to late 30s by my guess). I don't think things went the way they expected and more younger guys went for the BRZ with the older crowd gravitating to the FRS/86.

This forum can sort of be used as a gauge as to measure the demographics even if it is a bit skewed since it means the members also like forums and are a bit more of the "enthusiast" crowd than many owners.
I have watched the demographics since I joined since it is something that interests me and have come to a few conclusions.
First off is the ages. May (possibly most) of the regular posters here are well north of 35. A good segment of them are that sub group are 50 or more. There is a significant number that are older than dirt! At almost 60 I am not even near the top of the age ladder here. This really isn't a weird as it seems when you start hearing about the cars that the old timers had in the past.

The other thing that really stands out is the number of serving or retired military personnel that seem to own these cars. It is an abnormally high percentage for such a niche product. I think that part of that is that this car (as most sports cars) draws a Type A personalty to it. This is exactly the same type of person that usually goes into military service (or if they didn't go in that way they were when they came back out).

The third thing I have noticed due to the various "what is your job" threads is not even remotely surprising since it was exactly who they were marketing to in the first place. The vast majority of the people here are either IT, engineering, medical, tech trades or studying to be one of those things. There are exceptions for sure but the bulk of us fit into one of those slots no matter what age we are. Toyota/Subaru called that one right on the nose!

Now, as the car ages we are seeing a change in those demographics but again it is exactly what you would expect. As they get less expensive the ages will drop. That is the rule with any car though.

The following data is fairly old but still stands the test in my mind.

Looking at the vehicles that were cross shopped or traded in you can certainly see that most of the buyers were not 20 years old. some of those cars are almost exclusive to the older crowd. The Tc seems to be a young persons car but since they were traded in you could consider that the owner bought it young and had it a few years so were probably well into their 30s.



This demonstrates how the forum skews things. We certainly do not have 18 to 24% females on here. Maybe 2% at the best of times (I know there are more than one here that people do not realize are actual women). The few women that do show up don't usually post much or stay long because we are a bunch of dogs half the time. The real clincher here is the average ages of who registered the cars. Maybe some were registering for their kids but the percentages are so overwhelming for the 35 plug age groups it makes no difference. What it does show is that the common thought that most owners are young dudes really does not work in the real world. There are a large number of these cars being owned and driven by women 45 year old and up!




Soooo... when somebody says "all the cars in my area are young guys who's parents bought it for them" I call bull shit. All you see is young guys simply because that is the crowd you hang with or the area that you frequent. For every single heavy modded, hard parking showpiece or track prepped race car there are 10 or more basically stock cars being driven to work everyday by men and women 45 to 1,000 years old (like Hum).

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

Although they wanted this car to improve both brand's youth demographics, overall from what I've seen this car's demographics is surprisingly diverse. In some ways this car appeals to an older car guy's thinking because this car is a lot more simple than the majority of cars out there. The way it drives is closer to how older cars used to be than the modern ones. Ultimately, this car has always been an enthusiast's car, if you're an enthusiast I don't think it matters young or old. Heck its not even a bloke's car as enough women own and drive one too. Attaching a stereotype to the people who drive this car isn't easy thus why none has caught on, unlike the Mustang or MX-5.

LOL I could have saved a pile of writing and just gone with this!

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

................. basically stock cars being driven to work everyday by men and women 45 to 1,000 years old (like Hum).

I noticed that ........


humfrz

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That you are aware of. You probably don't hang out in the empty nester, have some cash to blow on a toy circles that are also a target demographic for these. There are probably a couple of thousand around your area and I am sure that you do not know each and every owner.

I am just going by what I see on the road. Thats why i said most. I found my car which was owned by an older gentleman before me and it had very low mileage on it. They exist but I doubt there are many.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This forum can sort of be used as a gauge as to measure the demographics even if it is a bit skewed since it means the members also like forums and are a bit more of the "enthusiast" crowd than many owners.

...

Soooo... when somebody says "all the cars in my area are young guys who's parents bought it for them" I call bull shit. All you see is young guys simply because that is the crowd you hang with or the area that you frequent. For every single heavy modded, hard parking showpiece or track prepped race car there are 10 or more basically stock cars being driven to work everyday by men and women 45 to 1,000 years old (like Hum).

I agree with this. If you want a very different perspective than this forum, check out the FT86 subreddit. You'd think every single owner was 18-25 and turbocharging their rocket bunny kits.

Obviously, Reddit skews very young. It's like you said - a matter of your personal perspective.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/