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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


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Old 02-16-2022, 08:36 PM   #85
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Laws of physics don't lie. The only thing that's going to decrease stopping distance is your tire grip. Larger brakes don't do squat if you're tire grip is the same. You will just lock up earlier.

Do BBKs give you more confidence lap to lap? Hell yes. And confidence could be one of those x factors that help you get quicker but on the same skill, they will not yield faster lap times.

Do BBKs have a Return on Investment (ROI) compared to stock? Absolutely. Bigger pads, means more material which spreads out the same amount of energy (assuming same laps run) over a larger mass which means peak temps should be lower. This means the material doesn't see as much peak temp damage and the swings in temperature aren't as vicious. There's been videos done on this to calculate ROI.
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Old 02-16-2022, 09:00 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Laws of physics don't lie. The only thing that's going to decrease stopping distance is your tire grip. Larger brakes don't do squat if you're tire grip is the same. You will just lock up earlier.

Do BBKs give you more confidence lap to lap? Hell yes. And confidence could be one of those x factors that help you get quicker but on the same skill, they will not yield faster lap times.

Do BBKs have a Return on Investment (ROI) compared to stock? Absolutely. Bigger pads, means more material which spreads out the same amount of energy (assuming same laps run) over a larger mass which means peak temps should be lower. This means the material doesn't see as much peak temp damage and the swings in temperature aren't as vicious. There's been videos done on this to calculate ROI.
Not true. You’re considering that the brake system was optimized for straight line braking, which is often nor the case.
You can change the front/rear ratio, and reduce stopping distance (this would need to consider data from the specific setup), but this would bring other issues.
A often used solution for that is braking bar to change the bias.

Regarding a vehicle where you cannot tweak rhe electronics, than it is better to keep the same ratio, and than the stopping distance may marginally change.
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Old 02-16-2022, 09:19 PM   #87
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People who use "then" when they mean "than", are of course as dumb as rocks. But people who use *than* when they should use *then*, jeezis these people are fuken LOST...
Hahaha

Thanks for correcting, I fkd up on that. Too late and too tired to write properly.
Anyways, arguments stands.

I will search the article from Porsche later talking about that on one of the early models (928 or 944, i do not recall)
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Old 02-16-2022, 09:29 PM   #88
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Hahaha

Thanks for correcting, I fkd up on that. Too late and too tired to write properly.
Meantime I deleted my post cuz I was being a bit of an ass
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I will search the article from Porsche later talking about that on one of the early models (928 or 944, i do not recall)
928, 944, they had great braking for the era. Meanwhile 4-channel ABS on modern cars will pretty much ensure short stopping distances.

That said, I was frikn thrilled with the brakes on my '17 BRZ, right up until they went nuts at Watkins Glen. I've been tracking with the 40A ABS fuse pulled since then..
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Old 02-16-2022, 09:44 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Stonehorsw View Post
Not true. You’re considering that the brake system was optimized for straight line braking, which is often nor the case.
You can change the front/rear ratio, and reduce stopping distance (this would need to consider data from the specific setup), but this would bring other issues.
A often used solution for that is braking bar to change the bias.

Regarding a vehicle where you cannot tweak rhe electronics, than it is better to keep the same ratio, and than the stopping distance may marginally change.
#lawyered

You're micro'ing at this point and while correct, is missing the point of this thread. In this case, a BRZ with a BBK versus a BRZ without BBK on the same tires.
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Old 02-16-2022, 09:54 PM   #90
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Meantime I deleted my post cuz I was being a bit of an ass


928, 944, they had great braking for the era. Meanwhile 4-channel ABS on modern cars will pretty much ensure short stopping distances.

That said, I was frikn thrilled with the brakes on my '17 BRZ, right up until they went nuts at Watkins Glen. I've been tracking with the 40A ABS fuse pulled since then..
No worries, after 5 seconds my blood stopped boiling
Not my mother language and I assume that several times I make mistakes (I read my emails 3-5 times before sending, which I do not do on the forum)

I used one public example as it was an easy one, and shows how to tweak cars for specific usage. The problem was not the caliper/friction material, but suboptimal tire road coefficient usage.

Modern ABS can help mitigating this using EBD, but system is still reactive, when WSS reading reaches some triggers, abs will start modulating pressure, you can also change the triggers to a more conservative like the BRZ.

E-Boost can do a even better job on OeM condition, as you can use more proactive controls.

I did a quick check on the BRZ calculation (used geometrical calculation, as I do no have access to their AK Master testing), see below, also I did not instrument the car to verify, so take with a grain of salt.

If you run one day with VBox, send me wheel end pressure and abs log files and I can analyze for you.
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Old 02-16-2022, 10:14 PM   #91
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#lawyered

You're micro'ing at this point and while correct, is missing the point of this thread. In this case, a BRZ with a BBK versus a BRZ without BBK on the same tires.
Yeah, my bad. I am running stock blood, so it boiled due to the statement. I just intervened for the sake of sharing knowledge.

To calm down, I am going to install a BBK (big beer kit) cheers
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Old 02-16-2022, 11:49 PM   #92
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Yeah, my bad. I am running stock blood, so it boiled due to the statement. I just intervened for the sake of sharing knowledge.

To calm down, I am going to install a BBK (big beer kit) cheers
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Old 02-17-2022, 11:17 AM   #93
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In this case, a BRZ with a BBK versus a BRZ without BBK on the same tires.
FWIW:

2018 BRZ tS with huge rotors and fixed-caliper Brembos, 2825 lb on 215/40-18 Michelin PS4: 70-0 in 151 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

2022 BRZ with dinky rotors and sliding-calipers, 2843 lb on 215/40-18 Michelin PS4: 70-0 in 152 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...aru-brz-drive/
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Old 02-17-2022, 01:22 PM   #94
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I'm more curious to see what the distance comparison looks like after 7-10 repeated stops.
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Old 02-17-2022, 02:39 PM   #95
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I'm more curious to see what the distance comparison looks like after 7-10 repeated stops.
Will depend a lot more on the pads than calipers.
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Old 02-17-2022, 03:02 PM   #96
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I'm more curious to see what the distance comparison looks like after 7-10 repeated stops.
Not sure if someone from Europe have a copy of AMS testing. This magazine have a repeated braking testing that became benchmarking there for braking performance under repeated usage.
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Old 02-17-2022, 05:50 PM   #97
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FWIW:

2018 BRZ tS with huge rotors and fixed-caliper Brembos, 2825 lb on 215/40-18 Michelin PS4: 70-0 in 151 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

2022 BRZ with dinky rotors and sliding-calipers, 2843 lb on 215/40-18 Michelin PS4: 70-0 in 152 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...aru-brz-drive/
TIL if I take a REALLY big poop before my session, I can brake 1' later.
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Old 02-17-2022, 06:26 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
FWIW:

2018 BRZ tS with huge rotors and fixed-caliper Brembos, 2825 lb on 215/40-18 Michelin PS4: 70-0 in 151 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

2022 BRZ with dinky rotors and sliding-calipers, 2843 lb on 215/40-18 Michelin PS4: 70-0 in 152 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...aru-brz-drive/
This post makes me hnnnnnnng.
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