The Ultimate FA20 ITB thread. - Page 5 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

CSG Mike · 06-27-2018, 02:14 PM

Those results only make me more excited to finish my own testing!

RayRay88 · 06-27-2018, 02:56 PM

144whp sounds pretty low to me for a stock kouki motor. Most i've seen are at around 170. Might be heart break dyno. 60 over 170 puts it at around 230whp before any head work or cams. That's very impressive.

Also that torque number is totally believable, a healthy bump is well within the benefits of a ITB's. I do wonder why power and torque start to taper at ~6800. What's restricting it? Cams? Head flow? Runner length?

CSG Mike · 06-27-2018, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayRay88

144whp sounds pretty low to me for a stock kouki motor. Most i've seen are at around 170. Might be heart break dyno. 60 over 170 puts it at around 230whp before any head work or cams. That's very impressive.

Also that torque number is totally believable, a healthy bump is well within the benefits of a ITB's. I do wonder why power and torque start to taper at ~6800. What's restricting it? Cams? Head flow? Runner length?

Generally speaking, smaller trumpets = more low end gains, at the cost of high end gains. Likewise, larger trumpets = more high end gains, at the cost of low end gains.

These trumpets are on the smaller end for our displacement, so I would expect to see a healthy midrange boost, that chokes up top.

fika84 · 06-27-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Those results only make me more excited to finish my own testing!

FINISH IT! My pockets are burning.. I've been waiting for some real results and this makes me really excited!

max20s14 · 06-27-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Generally speaking, smaller trumpets = more low end gains, at the cost of high end gains. Likewise, larger trumpets = more high end gains, at the cost of low end gains.

These trumpets are on the smaller end for our displacement, so I would expect to see a healthy midrange boost, that chokes up top.

Perhaps SARD will release an N/A version of this kit down the road without the surge tank?

RayRay88 · 06-27-2018, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Generally speaking, smaller trumpets = more low end gains, at the cost of high end gains. Likewise, larger trumpets = more high end gains, at the cost of low end gains.

These trumpets are on the smaller end for our displacement, so I would expect to see a healthy midrange boost, that chokes up top.

Are you sure you don’t have the two reversed?

I know to calculate second and third harmonic pulses you need to account for runner length which is bell mouth to the valve seat. I’m not completely sure about the fa20/boxer motors but Honda and Toyota runners in the head portion were pretty short so to boost mid/low range power you had to run decently long stacks.

JimmyMac · 06-27-2018, 11:32 PM

Kinda like how BPB lengthen the intake to shift power lower.

CSG Mike · 06-28-2018, 12:32 AM

Length =/= diameter. I'm referring to diameter!

Bach415 · 06-28-2018, 01:34 AM

If I am correct, on one of his IG post, I think he did mention it was a new dyno that they used when tuning the ITB's where as the stock numbers were on the old dyno. Can't be too sure that the gains are that accurate imo.

churchx · 06-28-2018, 06:11 AM

No biggie, it's normal for forum members to draw conclusions from different dynos numbers without baseline

FunnyGopher · 06-28-2018, 06:21 AM

This looks exciting! It's fun to see a car actually running these NA. They sound FANTASTIC. I'm interested to hear how they feel, regardless of power. I hope they get their forum user working, we need answers!

why? · 06-28-2018, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchx

No biggie, it's normal for forum members to draw conclusions from different dynos numbers without baseline

unless the baseline was taken the same day it is pretty useless anyways, temp, humidity, etc will make the baseline useless as well.

churchx · 06-28-2018, 07:14 AM

At very least having stock baseline is single biggest variable elimination to roughly/remotely add some comparison ground to compare relative gains against it, instead of marking all of dyno results out there as completely unusuable. Reducing differences between eg. +/-30% to eg. +/-5to10%. "Better then nothing".

StraightOuttaCanadaEh · 06-28-2018, 08:26 AM

I commented on his post on IG and he said the most expensive part was the Motec. He mentioned that the price for the build was as much as a top end turbo kit or even a swap. But then again, he's planning to use it as a track car only. If I got this upgrade, I would need to know that the car would still be driveable in the winter

06-28-2018, 06:21 AM	#67
FunnyGopher Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Drives: 2015 BRZ Limited Location: Arizona Posts: 210 Thanks: 60 Thanked 131 Times in 87 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	This looks exciting! It's fun to see a car actually running these NA. They sound FANTASTIC. I'm interested to hear how they feel, regardless of power. I hope they get their forum user working, we need answers! __________________ Harrop Supercharger \| Delicious Tuning Flex Fuel Kit \| ACE Type-A 350 Header + OP \| CSG Touring 86 Catback \| RacerX Fabrication Catch Can \| Jackson Racing Dual Radiator/Oil Cooler \| Tuned by Zach from CSG

06-28-2018, 08:26 AM	#70
StraightOuttaCanadaEh Wes Join Date: Feb 2017 Drives: Artisan Spirits '17 86 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,795 Thanks: 1,165 Thanked 1,675 Times in 995 Posts Mentioned: 21 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I commented on his post on IG and he said the most expensive part was the Motec. He mentioned that the price for the build was as much as a top end turbo kit or even a swap. But then again, he's planning to use it as a track car only. If I got this upgrade, I would need to know that the car would still be driveable in the winter __________________ Instagram: @gt86ws

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06-27-2018, 02:14 PM	#57
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,533 Thanks: 8,920 Thanked 14,178 Times in 6,835 Posts Mentioned: 966 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	Those results only make me more excited to finish my own testing!

06-27-2018, 02:56 PM	#58
RayRay88 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Drives: 2017 86 860 Special Edition Location: Toronto Posts: 559 Thanks: 198 Thanked 461 Times in 241 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	144whp sounds pretty low to me for a stock kouki motor. Most i've seen are at around 170. Might be heart break dyno. 60 over 170 puts it at around 230whp before any head work or cams. That's very impressive. Also that torque number is totally believable, a healthy bump is well within the benefits of a ITB's. I do wonder why power and torque start to taper at ~6800. What's restricting it? Cams? Head flow? Runner length?

06-27-2018, 11:32 PM	#63
JimmyMac Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S, 2016 Miata Club Location: NC Posts: 785 Thanks: 183 Thanked 258 Times in 171 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Kinda like how BPB lengthen the intake to shift power lower.

06-28-2018, 12:32 AM	#64
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,533 Thanks: 8,920 Thanked 14,178 Times in 6,835 Posts Mentioned: 966 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	Length =/= diameter. I'm referring to diameter!

06-28-2018, 01:34 AM	#65
Bach415 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: Whiteout FRS Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,245 Thanks: 904 Thanked 414 Times in 296 Posts Mentioned: 31 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	If I am correct, on one of his IG post, I think he did mention it was a new dyno that they used when tuning the ITB's where as the stock numbers were on the old dyno. Can't be too sure that the gains are that accurate imo.

06-28-2018, 06:11 AM	#66
churchx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Drives: 2014 GT86 Location: Latvia, Riga Posts: 4,333 Thanks: 696 Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,436 Posts Mentioned: 53 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	No biggie, it's normal for forum members to draw conclusions from different dynos numbers without baseline

06-28-2018, 07:14 AM	#69
churchx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Drives: 2014 GT86 Location: Latvia, Riga Posts: 4,333 Thanks: 696 Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,436 Posts Mentioned: 53 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	At very least having stock baseline is single biggest variable elimination to roughly/remotely add some comparison ground to compare relative gains against it, instead of marking all of dyno results out there as completely unusuable. Reducing differences between eg. +/-30% to eg. +/-5to10%. "Better then nothing".

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