WARNING: Top Speed Auto Exhaust, ect.

[MTD_86]

Update! I got back an email from josh and he offered me $289 for a refund leaving me at a net loss of $129.38!!! Serisously F%CK these guys! They are not worth your time or money, go eBay exhaust if you want to be cheap...

TLDR: Top Speed Auto screwed me out of $418.38 because of a mistake that they made and I tried to help them fix. Don’t bother dealing with these crooks and their sub par products!

I am new to the BRZ/FR-S/86 community, but I am not new to the car community as a whole. I have a very good reputation and a great amount of participation in the forums at T4R.org while I was building my 2000 Toyota 4Runner. A quick TLDR on that is that I built an overland camping rig out of it, 5 speed manual, and TRD Supercharged, fun right? Well I wanted to get into the sport car scene so I picked up a 2017 Toyota 86 about a month ago and wanted to get an exhaust for it as my first mod. That’s when this whole ordeal started that I am about to describe for you so you don’t make the same mistake that I do.
I wanted a quieter exhaust and didn’t really want to go full cat back so I did some research and opted for the 2013-Up Top Speed Auto Axle Back.



I ordered the exhaust using their 10% off coupon they have posted all over the forums and on Facebook for a total of $359.99 shipped. Waited almost a week for the exhaust to ship, a little annoying, but not my issue. Upon receiving the exhaust I immediately went to install the exhaust because I wanted it on my car for my business trip to Kansas city the following day. After some messing around getting the old exhaust off and the hangers all connected on the new exhaust I noticed the exhaust flanges on the 2017 model year is bigger! Not a big deal, I immediately contacted Top Speed Auto a note that I did manage to rig the exhaust with C clamps because it was getting late and I needed to take the car to work the next day. In addition to the flanges being different the exhaust did not fit well at all, one tip stuck out further than the other and from the back it didn’t look bad, but from above it looked awful. I waited for a response, but there was none so I called, I got the run around by a secretary who, because of the phone on their end, I couldn’t understand. Eventually she said someone would call me. By this time I was already driving to Kansas City, with the exhaust on the car, and I eventually get a call from a gentleman named Josh Lynch. Josh didn’t take long before he openly admitted that they had no idea that this exhaust did not fit the 2017’s and he offered me a choice to exchange the exhaust for a catback, which fit, or to send it back for a full refund. I had a very good conversation with him in regard to the exhaust and I offered him a dimensioned drawing of the 2017 exhaust flange that I had made the day I tried to install the exhaust. At this time I also informed him that the exhaust had been rigged with c-clamps and that I had to drive to Kansas on it, I even offered to drive the extra 7 hours down to Dallas to exchange the exhaust in person on my dime, he declined. He did say that was fine that the exhaust was on the car though unfortunately he said that over the phone. In regard to the fitment issues he responded “oh, that’s a known issue, most people fix it by removing one hanger”, SERIOUSLY!?

Let me know if you need anything else. I'm on the road for the rest of the day today. Also feel free to call back if you have any questions.

Best,

Alex Neu

Perfect, I’ll pull the exhaust tonight and get it all boxed up. Should I forward the tracking number to you or would you like me to send it to someone else?

Best,

Alex

From: josh lynch [mailto:joshlynch@topspeedauto.com]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 11:08 AM
To: Neu Alex (FCA)
Subject: Re: Flange Drawing

Yes I did receive it. You are welcome to ship the item back to us and we can exchange it for a catback.

Thanks!
Josh Lynch
Sales Manager
972-233-0888 | 972-233-0800 | TopSpeedAuto.com |
4109 Billy Mitchell Dr. Addison, TX 75001


Get a signature like this: Click here!

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Neu Alex (FCA) wrote:
Josh,

Just checking that you received my email with the drawing, I know I sent it a bit late on Thursday. I have decided that I will have to send the exhaust back for an exchange if possible. I didn’t have any interest around here for it unfortunately. Is there any chance that we could work an exchange for your Pro-1 Dual catback? Let me know if you need any clarification or more dimensions also. They were all taken with a Mitutoyo caliper that has been recently calibrated, not that it needs to be that accurate.

Best,

Alex Neu

Here is where things get hairy, upon my return of the exhaust which cost me $58.39 to ship back I get an email back that says I will need to pay a 20% restocking fee because the exhaust is used, even though I had told Josh it was going to be on the car for the trip to KS and back! I told him that was unacceptable and that had I known that it would be an issue I would have kept the exhaust and sold the thing locally because I was out that money plus the return shipping. He told me he would see what he could do about that and promptly I get a $100 invoice from Top Speed’s PayPal. Apparently this was for the up charge for the Catback which was supposed to be a straight exchange because they had their item on their website listed incorrectly! This is when I noticed that they had updated their webpage to show the correct year range fitment of 2013-2016, using the information that I provided to correct the listing!





Not only are these guys trying to screw me over by making me pay more, because they changed the webpage when I filed a report with Paypal it was declined because “The listing accurately described the item you received.” Which is not even close to true!

Now I am out $418.38, with no exhaust, and no means to get the exhaust or the money back from Top Speed Auto. Buyer beware their products do not fit correctly and they are not willing to work with people on fixes.

[MTD_86]

Update! I got back an email from josh and he offered me $289 for a refund leaving me at a net loss of $129.38!!! Serisously F%CK these guys! They are not worth your time or money, go eBay exhaust if you want to be cheap...

[SCQTT]

Being a Guinea pig or a Beta Tester is NOT a bad thing if you know going in. I had a similar situation with Borla nearly 30 years ago, but they made it completely right, and very quickly.

You did some things wrong, that does not absolve them of their responsibility, but it gives them an out.

Everyone wants to get their farkles quickly and get them on right away. I have a drive, I have a race, I want to impress my date on Tuesday....etc.

Your need to do it quickly is NOT their problem. Your drive to KC is NOT their problem. You using the product even though it was not acceptable became YOUR problem. You being a little wishy washy on how you wanted the problem remedied added to your problem and gave them more opportunity to not do the right thing.

In hindsight the $60 return shipping and $80 restocking fee seems cheap huh? When you keep throwing good money after bad this is the kind of stuff that happens. They dinged you for another $100? that would piss me off too. Since the quality of the first purchase was not acceptable, why would you agree to another purchase?

You tried to save some money and got burned. You were trying to get something that typically costs $600 for $360. That extra $240 does not seem bad now huh?

The reason we are on a model specific forum is to share in the community and one of the benefits is our collective knowledge. I'm not certain about that seller, but I can tell you there are quite a few exhaust companies on here that have a good business reputation. You accept some risk of having this situation happen when you go off-the- farm and work with someone that is NOT fully vetted by the forum. (I am making this assumption) You could have been rewarded with a quality product with great fitment and performance AND saved $240, but instead your risk was not rewarded.

I would tell them exactly what you expect. No threats, plain and simple, list your expectations. Do not give them choices, do not say "do this or do that". Clear and to the point.

They do not want you to visit because you expect an exhaust R&D center with dynos and such and they are just an office and warehouse. Chances are they just bought these in bulk from China and the design was just copied from someone who did the real R&D....that legwork was worth the extra $240, right?

If they ignore you- you can always drive down there and crash your car through their front door and jump out and stab the owner in the neck....but then the $420 you are out of pocket will seem cheap compared to what you are facing.

[Soloside]

wow that escalated quickly.

[8RZ]

Caveat emptor.

[ajcarson11]

That's a serious bummer. Can you escalate it above Josh? You can always file a paypal dispute. I like my TopSpeed axleback (although I agree that the tips don't fit perfect... I haven't tried removing one of the hangers).


Also -- To respond to the poster above, TopSpeed actually has a fairly decent reputation amongst performance shops. They do a lot of their own work (although on this specific model, it is nearly a clone of the Greddy SP Axleback). Not trying to vouch necessarily for them, but I would do some research before you suggest otherwise.

[Clipdat]

Yeah unfortunately this axleback has been known to be ill-fitting and there are multiple forum posts about it.

As well as multiple forum posts about how axlebacks that worked on 13-16 don't work on 17.

[finch1750]

Not having it in writting that driving on it a bunch was OK is probably the end of it. If you paid by CC maybe you could do a chargeback based on your screenshot (or try to appeal to Paypal and provide it if you havent already).

But honestly your best bet may just be pay the $100 and get a cheap catback even if you dont want to give them money. Losing the Paypal dispute already killed a lot of your leverage

[MTD_86]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

Being a Guinea pig or a Beta Tester is NOT a bad thing if you know going in. I had a similar situation with Borla nearly 30 years ago, but they made it completely right, and very quickly.

You did some things wrong, that does not absolve them of their responsibility, but it gives them an out.

Everyone wants to get their farkles quickly and get them on right away. I have a drive, I have a race, I want to impress my date on Tuesday....etc.

Your need to do it quickly is NOT their problem. Your drive to KC is NOT their problem. You using the product even though it was not acceptable became YOUR problem. You being a little wishy washy on how you wanted the problem remedied added to your problem and gave them more opportunity to not do the right thing.

In hindsight the $60 return shipping and $80 restocking fee seems cheap huh? When you keep throwing good money after bad this is the kind of stuff that happens. They dinged you for another $100? that would piss me off too. Since the quality of the first purchase was not acceptable, why would you agree to another purchase?

You tried to save some money and got burned. You were trying to get something that typically costs $600 for $360. That extra $240 does not seem bad now huh?

The reason we are on a model specific forum is to share in the community and one of the benefits is our collective knowledge. I'm not certain about that seller, but I can tell you there are quite a few exhaust companies on here that have a good business reputation. You accept some risk of having this situation happen when you go off-the- farm and work with someone that is NOT fully vetted by the forum. (I am making this assumption) You could have been rewarded with a quality product with great fitment and performance AND saved $240, but instead your risk was not rewarded.

I would tell them exactly what you expect. No threats, plain and simple, list your expectations. Do not give them choices, do not say "do this or do that". Clear and to the point.

They do not want you to visit because you expect an exhaust R&D center with dynos and such and they are just an office and warehouse. Chances are they just bought these in bulk from China and the design was just copied from someone who did the real R&D....that legwork was worth the extra $240, right?

If they ignore you- you can always drive down there and crash your car through their front door and jump out and stab the owner in the neck....but then the $420 you are out of pocket will seem cheap compared to what you are facing.

LMAO dude. I am a mechanical engineer, I just bought the car new, and I haven't had any forum time with the 86. Typically if there is a company that is advertising an exhaust system on a site that isnt in a early 90's dancing jesus style webpage its probably pretty trustworthy, by no means did I go off the farm. And honestly your ramblings add a sense of humor to this thread so thank you :P. If you think them not making good on their promises was my fault then cool, but at the end of the day the bent me over for the tune of $130. It's not a $1000 and I make plenty but the reason the rich are rich is because they tend to not waste their money, and this was nothing but a waste. A lesson learned, but it is what it is.

Originally Posted by ajcarson11

That's a serious bummer. Can you escalate it above Josh? You can always file a paypal dispute. I like my TopSpeed axleback (although I agree that the tips don't fit perfect... I haven't tried removing one of the hangers).

PayPal dispute was filed but they had changed the website to reflect the correct information before paypal reviewed it so they denied it...

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Yeah unfortunately this axleback has been known to be ill-fitting and there are multiple forum posts about it.

As well as multiple forum posts about how axlebacks that worked on 13-16 don't work on 17.

I haven't been on any forums unfortunately, it was what i wanted and it said it fit 2013 and up so I cannot be held accountable in that aspect, the seller should have known what there product fit.

Originally Posted by finch1750

Not having it in writting that driving on it a bunch was OK is probably the end of it. If you paid by CC maybe you could do a chargeback based on your screenshot (or try to appeal to Paypal and provide it if you havent already).

But honestly your best bet may just be pay the $100 and get a cheap catback even if you dont want to give them money. Losing the Paypal dispute already killed a lot of your leverage

I did f' myself by having a phone conversation and not getting it all in writing, even though I did get the catback exchange in writing, which they went back on. I just don't want to give them any more business...

[MTD_86]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

I would tell them exactly what you expect. No threats, plain and simple, list your expectations. Do not give them choices, do not say "do this or do that". Clear and to the point.

It did come down to this in the end, I didn't post my entire conversation because it got very long and Josh also got very very rude. In the end I just want my partial refund and I am chalking this up to a company that doesn't need my support.

[SCQTT]

My ramblings? Lol, take a look at your original post. I took the time to explain what you did wrong in the face of what (may be) a less than reputable retailer.

Read that again, I TOOK MY TIME TO HELP YOU.

your response is to blame the rich......that's hilarious. The supplier is rich and he is taking advantage of a professional engineer? Lol, I see, you're a victim.

I actually feel bad for the supplier now.

I'd tell you to go F yourself, but it seems to me you do a pretty good job of that yourself.

Have an awesome day.

[ajcarson11]

I wonder if you could appeal the paypal dispute and provide the cached web page, showing that the date the page was changed was AFTER you received your product. Just a random thought.

[MTD_86]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

My ramblings? Lol, take a look at your original post. I took the time to explain what you did wrong in the face of what (may be) a less than reputable retailer.

Read that again, I TOOK MY TIME TO HELP YOU.

your response is to blame the rich......that's hilarious. The supplier is rich and he is taking advantage of a professional engineer? Lol, I see, you're a victim.

I actually feel bad for the supplier now.

I'd tell you to go F yourself, but it seems to me you do a pretty good job of that yourself.

Have an awesome day.

Oh my God dude, why are you so angry?. Go back and read. I am a mechanical engineer, so at the risk of sounding like an asshole, I am the rich... I was beyond pissed when I wrote the post, to the point of shaking, so it may be a bit off grammaticaly, but everything included is crucial to the background of this post. You did nothing to help me and i am not asking for help lol, but thank you for the input.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by MTD_86

Not a big deal, I immediately contacted Top Speed Auto a note that I did manage to rig the exhaust with C clamps because it was getting late and I needed to take the car to work the next day. In addition to the flanges being different the exhaust did not fit well at all, one tip stuck out further than the other and from the back it didn’t look bad, but from above it looked awful.

Actually, this is a big deal.

If I got a customer that said "Oh this product doesn't fit but I installed it anyway", it suddenly becomes a situation where they can't swap out the product.

Drawing fancy flanges for them doesn't help, because something at this price point isn't even made by them, some factory copied the original design for them. They can pass the drawings around all day, but until someone gives the factory an updated 2017 exhaust to physically copy, they won't make a change.

I can't speak for them but in my situation, if a customer told me something doesn't fit but chose to install it anyway, then as far as I'm concerned they accepted the item as-is. I would make every attempt to exchange or refund, but given that it's been further modified with C-clamps then it renders the product completely useless and is now scrap metal.

-alex

P.S. This is same as ebay exhaust, probably same factory or factories. I probably already know who the factory is, too...