"Upgrading" BRZ suspension without lowering

[Plumbus]

Originally Posted by holeeray

Sweet, I'm pretty dead set on the RPF1s, but I'll take a look at the Konigs, too.

RPF1s are not really cheap. $275 per wheel for the black ones and 250 for the silver ones. They are what I'd consider middle range, despite the fact they are incredibly old technology and tend to bend more easily than newer wheels. They are incredibly lightweight though, and are incredibly good looking, so I get the hype and I almost bought a set myself.

I would definitely check the Konigs, they offer a fantastic product for much less brand tax. My bro got himself a set of 17x8 Motegi tracklites MR131 for $160 per wheel, and they are only like a pound heavier than the RPF1s. They don't make them in 17x8 in 5x100 unfortunately but there is a 17x7 in our bolt pattern if you want OE sizing. So bottom line, there are plenty of great options at affordable prices, but RPF1s are not a bad option either. definitely check the Konigs out though.

As far as the TRD Door Stabilizer, can anyone vouch for it giving a substantial improvement in chassis flex? at $255 they are incredibly expensive for what they are, probably the worst bang for your buck but maybe a worthy finishing upgrade if they do work?

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

As far as the TRD Door Stabilizer, can anyone vouch for it giving a substantial improvement in chassis flex? at $255 they are incredibly expensive for what they are, probably the worst bang for your buck but maybe a worthy finishing upgrade if they do work?

I've felt a car that had it. The door felt nicer when closing for sure. Other than that...

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I've felt a car that had it. The door felt nicer when closing for sure. Other than that...

This was like my 2nd or 3rd accessory I added. It looks cool. Other than that... The door is harder to close.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

As far as the TRD Door Stabilizer, can anyone vouch for it giving a substantial improvement in chassis flex? at $255 they are incredibly expensive for what they are, probably the worst bang for your buck but maybe a worthy finishing upgrade if they do work?

A bit cheaper here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264548028536

[glhs386]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

As far as the TRD Door Stabilizer, can anyone vouch for it giving a substantial improvement in chassis flex? at $255 they are incredibly expensive for what they are, probably the worst bang for your buck but maybe a worthy finishing upgrade if they do work?

I bought these solely because I had some intermittent door rattles and window seal squeaks that were driving me nuts and I thought they might help. In that regard, they were actually pretty dang effective. I can't vouch for any improvements in handling, but at least the car sounds just a little bit more solid.

[jeepmor]

I see these notes of more front camber. 14 FRS owner and I feel a bit tail happy and chose this model because I've owned several subaru rigs and they have all understeered badly. And read the BRZ was similar.

I see the suggestions, but does anyone have an alignment comment with specific numbers? This one has always intrigued me as it seems only the racer types really know all the nuances of the alignment.

I have the front camber bolts, I added them at my alignment at 75K when I put some new tires on. But I didn't veer much from stock if any.

I'm a spirited daily driver type. No track stuff, just lots of twisty roads in my area to enjoy.

For my handling, car is pretty neutral with slight understeer if coasting through the corner off the throttle. If hitting hard on throttle, it easily oversteers, like breath on the throttle a bit to shift the power from decel to accel and it goes oversteer. Stock setup.

[NLSP]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

As far as the TRD Door Stabilizer, can anyone vouch for it giving a substantial improvement in chassis flex? at $255 they are incredibly expensive for what they are, probably the worst bang for your buck but maybe a worthy finishing upgrade if they do work?

I have the TRD door stabilizers installed; I also have the TRD front strut bar (they were installed at separate times). It's similar/adds to the effects of installing a front strut bar in terms of making the car feel sharper, more solid and planted. As a bonus, they both help with uneven pavement feel a little less crashy (more refined).

I'm sure you've seen the mixed reviews about these kinds of parts. I think the negativity comes from members that want to see measurable improvements (lap times) that can be seen on paper...On the flip side, there are members that appreciate this platform because it excels at things that can't be measured on paper (steering feel/response, shifter feel, driving position, etc).

I can admit and agree that these parts make little or no difference in lap times, but it does improve feel, confidence and fun if you care more about the driving experience rather than measurable numbers. I would put these parts in the same "feel-mod" realm as brake master cylinder braces, for example. They don't help you stop faster, but it certainly feels more solid and confidence-inspiring.

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by NLSP

making the car feel sharper, more solid and planted...

I don't intend to be rude but those exact words are used in every car "bracing" or bush advert for every single brace or bush available...from underseat braces to front 3/4 braces, from door braces to drop link bushes...etc etc.

In specific cases for specific uses there can be genuine advantages in using properly engineered bracing and/or bushes, in conjunction with other well thought out modifications.

But otherwise it is literally a marketing ploy to sell product. Its a placebo effect.

Try a proper double blind test with couple of mates using the same 86/BRZ (the front strut brace is the quickest and easiest to remove and replace), over the same road.

Then try the same test with quality tyres vs cheap tyres....thats something most drivers can genuinely feel.

[NLSP]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

I don't intend to be rude but those exact words are used in every car "bracing" or bush advert for every single brace or bush available...from underseat braces to front 3/4 braces, from door braces to drop link bushes...etc etc.

In specific cases for specific uses there can be genuine advantages in using properly engineered bracing and/or bushes, in conjunction with other well thought out modifications.

But otherwise it is literally a marketing ploy to sell product. Its a placebo effect.

Try a proper double blind test with couple of mates using the same 86/BRZ (the front strut brace is the quickest and easiest to remove and replace), over the same road.

Then try the same test with quality tyres vs cheap tyres....thats something most drivers can genuinely feel.

Funny you mention the blind test...I remember reading about one on the forum a while back regarding the GrimmSpeed strut bar, and they were able to tell the difference every time. In another thread, another skeptic got silenced when he was given a strut bar to test on his next track day.

I understand your skeptism, and the case may be true from shady manufacturers that just replicate other brands using lower quality materials. But this not the first time I've installed a strut bar (from a reputable company) on a car. I was once in your shoes and curious, so I tried it on my previous car, and was surprised with the positive results. Based on that experience, I decided to give it a go on my FR-S, and I got similar results.

If they're that useless, I certainly wouldn't have bought a front strut bar a 2nd time; I don't step in dog shit, turn around and step on it again. I'm not one for mods that are strictly "bling". I also wouldn't praise something just because I spent money on it.

Like I said in my previous post, these types of mods won't appeal to people who want to see significant measurable differences, and that's fine. But it'd be wrong to say they make absolutely zero difference in how the car feels.

[norcalpb]

Not to mention the Grimmspeed strut bar is a proper anti-zombie weapon...if that ever happens of course.

[solidONE]

Rigid Colars have y'all seen Spoon's advert with the prius? LMAO According to them it smoothed out the ride so great they demonstrated on video. It has to do something structurally, even if minute.

IMO The price tag has little to do with cost of manufacure or "R&D". It's Marketing! I'd still rock it tho for the minimal gains and aligment of the chassis components.

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by NLSP

these types of mods won't appeal to people who want to see significant measurable differences, and that's fine. But it'd be wrong to say they make absolutely zero difference in how the car feels.

Like you, I have used strut braces over the last 40 years on many many different cars, from rally cars to sports cars.
For road use, early on there were some tangible differences as the rigidity of earlier car shells was less advanced than it is today, often (counterintuitively) the towers could actually pull outwards at the tops.
For rally cars it stopped the front towers collapsing in on each other, and/or cracking welds.
For our road cars today (not on tracks), I can't find any difference at all in feel...particularly given that the twins already have nicely triangulated front braces. Tyres, dampers, spring rates or worn bushes...absolutely. But (possibly) minuscule amounts chassis flex or twist on the road, thats way, way beyond my driving level. Frankly I would be astonished if any random group of drivers could genuinely feel the difference to a standard 86 if an additional strut brace were fitted or not, on the road, in a proper scientific blind test. Most of us don't even show the care over tyre pressures that we should...
As for the door apertures being a structural weakness...that might be the case on convertibles, but on a modern road car they are phenomenally well designed and utterly critical to the integrity (and safety) of the whole shell.
If it were so very easy (and to a manufacturer, very very cheap) to improve our road cars driving feel, by improving the door lock striker plates...they might have actually done it themselves already?
Obviously a track car needs a much more rigid and stable "base" to allow their suspension and tyres to be optimised.

[venturaII]

Start off with a really top notch alignment. You'll be amazed at how a performance alignment (DON'T use the factory specs) with additional camber will change the personality of this chassis.

[therealstoly]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

I don't intend to be rude but those exact words are used in every car "bracing" or bush advert for every single brace or bush available...from underseat braces to front 3/4 braces, from door braces to drop link bushes...etc etc.

In specific cases for specific uses there can be genuine advantages in using properly engineered bracing and/or bushes, in conjunction with other well thought out modifications.

But otherwise it is literally a marketing ploy to sell product. Its a placebo effect.

Try a proper double blind test with couple of mates using the same 86/BRZ (the front strut brace is the quickest and easiest to remove and replace), over the same road.

Then try the same test with quality tyres vs cheap tyres....thats something most drivers can genuinely feel.

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Like you, I have used strut braces over the last 40 years on many many different cars, from rally cars to sports cars.
For road use, early on there were some tangible differences as the rigidity of earlier car shells was less advanced than it is today, often (counterintuitively) the towers could actually pull outwards at the tops.
For rally cars it stopped the front towers collapsing in on each other, and/or cracking welds.
For our road cars today (not on tracks), I can't find any difference at all in feel...particularly given that the twins already have nicely triangulated front braces. Tyres, dampers, spring rates or worn bushes...absolutely. But (possibly) minuscule amounts chassis flex or twist on the road, thats way, way beyond my driving level. Frankly I would be astonished if any random group of drivers could genuinely feel the difference to a standard 86 if an additional strut brace were fitted or not, on the road, in a proper scientific blind test. Most of us don't even show the care over tyre pressures that we should...
As for the door apertures being a structural weakness...that might be the case on convertibles, but on a modern road car they are phenomenally well designed and utterly critical to the integrity (and safety) of the whole shell.
If it were so very easy (and to a manufacturer, very very cheap) to improve our road cars driving feel, by improving the door lock striker plates...they might have actually done it themselves already?
Obviously a track car needs a much more rigid and stable "base" to allow their suspension and tyres to be optimised.

Just out of curiosity, what braces have you installed, and/or tested, on this platform?

If none, I have a follow-up question for you. What would then qualify you make a statements of fact regarding things you have zero first hand knowledge about?

From where I'm sitting, you're an ignorant bully. You are telling another human being that his experiences are incorrect and invalid whilst having the audacity to declare that you are right based upon broad-stroking manufacturing improvements within the automotive industry.