follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Xero Limit
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions

Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here.


View Poll Results: How many 86 owners are planning on getting the Supra?
I'm definitely getting one 28 12.56%
I might get one if they offer a MT 87 39.01%
No, not me. 108 48.43%
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #393
tennisfreak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2018 BMW M240i
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 692
Thanked 914 Times in 538 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
I've owned a BMW. I don't care what it's short term reliability is. The company makes nothing but overengineered and poorly implemented shitboxes. Sorry.

And I can take off my hood for cooling too, doesn't mean I needed a fake vent there to do so

I guess I'll just agree to disagree with the fans.. but I won't buy one of these turds.
I find the irony of your post funny.

Calling BMW shitboxes while owning and driving a Chevrolet Camaro the least reliable model from a brand with shit reliability to begin with.

BMW is reliable and the b58 is a strong engine those are just facts not personal opinions like what you stated.

As a previous owner of a brand new 2015 c7 z51 Corvette I had to have the oil sump replaced in less than 1 year because of a leak. Shit reliability.

One year in on my BMW with a tune and many other mods not a single issue and I beat the crap out of this car.
tennisfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #394
bfrank1972
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S Argento
Location: Westport,CT
Posts: 1,729
Thanks: 460
Thanked 928 Times in 556 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquachulator View Post
Theres a thread somewhere that disproves the "Subaru made the twins" misconception. Its like an actual 50% split between them in terms of actual work provided by each company. Pretty interesting actually, but I guess from the outside it would appear that Subaru did the grunt work.

What surprised me is that the twins are considered the most reliable vehicle for both? I thought the Twins was more unreliable than the typical Toyota/Subaru.....unless that's just its build quality feels less because of all the supposed squeaks and rattles and random noises.
So you're saying that BRZs were produced/assembled in one factory and FR-S's/86's were produced/assembled in another factory? I.E. mechanicals. If so I didn't know that, thought from a mechanical perspective the whole drivetrain/car under the body was produced in one place.

I'm also surprised that both cars were top for reliability ratings, especially for Toyota considering reputation of it's other cars (Camry, Corolla, Highlander, Rav4, Land Cruiser, all legendary for reliability). Reading through here you'd think we're playing russian roulette every time we start our cars lol.
bfrank1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 10:25 AM   #395
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: "Olivia" my Firestorm 6AT FR-S
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 13,760
Thanks: 25,305
Thanked 14,311 Times in 6,931 Posts
Mentioned: 137 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Since the chart below is from Consumer Reports, I thought it would be useful to see how they get the ratings. Basically its data submitted by their subscribers when surveyed. so in the end, to me, this is like a lot of reliability studies, its "perceived reliability" rather than based on actual documented failures, repairs, etc. Still probably relatively accurate but I find it hard to believe there is a near 60 point difference between the top and the bottom of the scale (whatever a "point" means).

But then, since the most reliable car of the most reliable brand is the one I own, I guess I'm good!


https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...liability-faq/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Is Toyota better? Yes. Is it not even close? No.


__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
Rampage (01-18-2019), Tcoat (01-18-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 10:27 AM   #396
RayRay88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 86 860 Special Edition
Location: Toronto
Posts: 402
Thanks: 147
Thanked 323 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ichitaka05 View Post
Again, not everyone need those vents to be functional. Maybe 1%~2% will use those vents. Why bother making it functional when itís wonít be needed for daily drivers?

I'm sorry, this may be your opinion but its a cop out. You're basically saying only 1-2% if the buyers will care about drag reduction on the highway or care about reducing brake fade on a halo sports car. Or reducing lift/drag on a car capable of high speeds. We aren't talking about feature such as an oil cooler where, yes possibly only 1-2% of buyers will ever need, we're talking about features that benefit all users on a day to day usage, that I would assume cost very little R&D to implement (in the grand scheme of things).



Basically his response was marketing covering for features that the design department pushed through, and the engineers were too lazy or had no budget to cover.



Take a look at modern BMW and Audi vehicles, most of them have very clever usage of vents and ducting in the front for aero/cooling purposes. they don't just have random slats sliced in the side of the car and blanked for no reason.



Note: I acknowledge this is a bit of a rant of the state of automotive design in general and the Supra is just taking the brunt of my frustration.
RayRay88 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to RayRay88 For This Useful Post:
ichitaka05 (01-18-2019), krayzie (01-18-2019), Tcoat (01-18-2019), WolfpackS2k (01-24-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 10:30 AM   #397
Dave-ROR
Site Moderator
 
Dave-ROR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Drives: Stuff
Location: Florida
Posts: 9,944
Thanks: 834
Thanked 5,393 Times in 2,451 Posts
Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Is Toyota better? Yes. Is it not even close? No.


That's a weird breakdown by using series vs actual models. But that's better than I expected but again, what's the timeline for that? Most cars are pretty good short term now.. it's when they get 5-10 years old that they turn into total shitboxes in my experience. Working on them sucks balls too, but I guess the timing chain location on the B58 makes that pretty obvious already right? lol
__________________
-Dave
HPDE/DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE || HPDE/DD: 2015 Subaru BRZ ||Tow Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 8.1L || Weekend toy: 1994 MR2 Turbo || The other weekend toy: 1993 MR2 Turbo || Track car: 1998 Integra Type-R || Race car: 1996 Integra GS-R || New race car build: 1992 Honda Civic Hatchback || Oh yeah and a 2013 Scion FR-S too..

Too many cars.. never.
Dave-ROR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 10:32 AM   #398
Dave-ROR
Site Moderator
 
Dave-ROR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Drives: Stuff
Location: Florida
Posts: 9,944
Thanks: 834
Thanked 5,393 Times in 2,451 Posts
Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
This is the sort of stuff that bugs me. You can't even pretend that there would be a purpose there..
haha yeah the back is full of fake vents. At least the front ones are generally functional.. but that rear end is something else.
__________________
-Dave
HPDE/DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE || HPDE/DD: 2015 Subaru BRZ ||Tow Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 8.1L || Weekend toy: 1994 MR2 Turbo || The other weekend toy: 1993 MR2 Turbo || Track car: 1998 Integra Type-R || Race car: 1996 Integra GS-R || New race car build: 1992 Honda Civic Hatchback || Oh yeah and a 2013 Scion FR-S too..

Too many cars.. never.
Dave-ROR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 10:38 AM   #399
Dave-ROR
Site Moderator
 
Dave-ROR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Drives: Stuff
Location: Florida
Posts: 9,944
Thanks: 834
Thanked 5,393 Times in 2,451 Posts
Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisfreak View Post
I find the irony of your post funny.

Calling BMW shitboxes while owning and driving a Chevrolet Camaro the least reliable model from a brand with shit reliability to begin with.

BMW is reliable and the b58 is a strong engine those are just facts not personal opinions like what you stated.

As a previous owner of a brand new 2015 c7 z51 Corvette I had to have the oil sump replaced in less than 1 year because of a leak. Shit reliability.

One year in on my BMW with a tune and many other mods not a single issue and I beat the crap out of this car.
I never posted that Chevy was reliable. I have the car because it's stupid fast on track and is an absolute blast to drive. Also, it's simple and easy to work on, unlike a BMW.

Before that I had a Focus too, Ford's worst model. Although mine was a German Focus.. and Focus has a bad name because of their absolutely TERRIBLE DCT.

Although, GM's A8 is a big cause of their reliability issues either.. but automatic so I don't care

I probably beat my Camaro worse than you do your BMW.. it's also been problem free so I guess there are reliable examples of everything!
__________________
-Dave
HPDE/DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE || HPDE/DD: 2015 Subaru BRZ ||Tow Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 8.1L || Weekend toy: 1994 MR2 Turbo || The other weekend toy: 1993 MR2 Turbo || Track car: 1998 Integra Type-R || Race car: 1996 Integra GS-R || New race car build: 1992 Honda Civic Hatchback || Oh yeah and a 2013 Scion FR-S too..

Too many cars.. never.
Dave-ROR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 10:42 AM   #400
Dave-ROR
Site Moderator
 
Dave-ROR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Drives: Stuff
Location: Florida
Posts: 9,944
Thanks: 834
Thanked 5,393 Times in 2,451 Posts
Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Since the chart below is from Consumer Reports, I thought it would be useful to see how they get the ratings. Basically its data submitted by their subscribers when surveyed. so in the end, to me, this is like a lot of reliability studies, its "perceived reliability" rather than based on actual documented failures, repairs, etc. Still probably relatively accurate but I find it hard to believe there is a near 60 point difference between the top and the bottom of the scale (whatever a "point" means).

But then, since the most reliable car of the most reliable brand is the one I own, I guess I'm good!
I wasn't going to go down this path but.. what someone considers unreliable is often a nuisance and not an actual failure anyways. Certain brands do have major issues with specific components but often those are avoidable (transmission selection, etc)
__________________
-Dave
HPDE/DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE || HPDE/DD: 2015 Subaru BRZ ||Tow Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 8.1L || Weekend toy: 1994 MR2 Turbo || The other weekend toy: 1993 MR2 Turbo || Track car: 1998 Integra Type-R || Race car: 1996 Integra GS-R || New race car build: 1992 Honda Civic Hatchback || Oh yeah and a 2013 Scion FR-S too..

Too many cars.. never.
Dave-ROR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave-ROR For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (01-18-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 10:47 AM   #401
Tcoat
He who smelt it...
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 60,149
Thanks: 53,029
Thanked 86,826 Times in 38,648 Posts
Mentioned: 2198 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Since the chart below is from Consumer Reports, I thought it would be useful to see how they get the ratings. Basically its data submitted by their subscribers when surveyed. so in the end, to me, this is like a lot of reliability studies, its "perceived reliability" rather than based on actual documented failures, repairs, etc. Still probably relatively accurate but I find it hard to believe there is a near 60 point difference between the top and the bottom of the scale (whatever a "point" means).

But then, since the most reliable car of the most reliable brand is the one I own, I guess I'm good!

Yep. Any reliability ratings are questionable. The data is everything and since the companies themselves will not release warranty info (even when good news) then we have to rely on people's reports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
That's a weird breakdown by using series vs actual models. But that's better than I expected but again, what's the timeline for that? Most cars are pretty good short term now.. it's when they get 5-10 years old that they turn into total shitboxes in my experience. Working on them sucks balls too, but I guess the timing chain location on the B58 makes that pretty obvious already right? lol

2018 report based upon the 3 prior years. Yes long term can change.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (01-18-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 10:48 AM   #402
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: "Olivia" my Firestorm 6AT FR-S
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 13,760
Thanks: 25,305
Thanked 14,311 Times in 6,931 Posts
Mentioned: 137 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisfreak View Post
...As a previous owner of a brand new 2015 c7 z51 Corvette I had to have the oil sump replaced in less than 1 year because of a leak. Shit reliability....
Having to have one part replaced = "shit reliability"? Seems extreme but I'm sure there is more to the story.

I've owned multiple GM products. 2 of them have had almost 300,000miles put on them and 2 were well over 100,000 miles. None of them had more than $2,000 of non-maintenance work done on them in their life and with the exception of one that lost a motor bearing at 280,000 miles, were still driving when I sold them.

Then again, I seem to have good luck with cars and trucks.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 10:51 AM   #403
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: "Olivia" my Firestorm 6AT FR-S
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 13,760
Thanks: 25,305
Thanked 14,311 Times in 6,931 Posts
Mentioned: 137 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
I wasn't going to go down this path but.. what someone considers unreliable is often a nuisance and not an actual failure anyways. Certain brands do have major issues with specific components but often those are avoidable (transmission selection, etc)
Yea, even the Consumer Reports FAQ indicates that "odd noise" is reported in the reliability.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
Dave-ROR (01-18-2019), Tcoat (01-18-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 11:03 AM   #404
Dave-ROR
Site Moderator
 
Dave-ROR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Drives: Stuff
Location: Florida
Posts: 9,944
Thanks: 834
Thanked 5,393 Times in 2,451 Posts
Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Yea, even the Consumer Reports FAQ indicates that "odd noise" is reported in the reliability.
Yeah back in 2013 the BRZ/FRS must have been the worse... all those HPFP replacements due to noise, poorly sealed taillights, etc.

Actually thinking back, my BRZ had more warranty work than any car I've ever owned. In 3 years it had at least 4-5 HPFP, 1 set of taillights, 1 transmission (6th gear whine) and HVAC controls IIRC.

Shit reliability

Like you though, my GM vehicles (3/4 ton trucks and the Camaro) have all been very solid.
__________________
-Dave
HPDE/DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE || HPDE/DD: 2015 Subaru BRZ ||Tow Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 8.1L || Weekend toy: 1994 MR2 Turbo || The other weekend toy: 1993 MR2 Turbo || Track car: 1998 Integra Type-R || Race car: 1996 Integra GS-R || New race car build: 1992 Honda Civic Hatchback || Oh yeah and a 2013 Scion FR-S too..

Too many cars.. never.
Dave-ROR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave-ROR For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (01-18-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #405
ichitaka05
Site Moderator
 
ichitaka05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: ichi 86 Project
Location: Middle of No where
Posts: 18,912
Thanks: 5,953
Thanked 14,967 Times in 6,874 Posts
Mentioned: 578 Post(s)
Tagged: 25 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayRay88 View Post
I'm sorry, this may be your opinion but its a cop out. You're basically saying only 1-2% if the buyers will care about drag reduction on the highway or care about reducing brake fade on a halo sports car. Or reducing lift/drag on a car capable of high speeds. We aren't talking about feature such as an oil cooler where, yes possibly only 1-2% of buyers will ever need, we're talking about features that benefit all users on a day to day usage, that I would assume cost very little R&D to implement (in the grand scheme of things).

Basically his response was marketing covering for features that the design department pushed through, and the engineers were too lazy or had no budget to cover.

Take a look at modern BMW and Audi vehicles, most of them have very clever usage of vents and ducting in the front for aero/cooling purposes. they don't just have random slats sliced in the side of the car and blanked for no reason.

Note: I acknowledge this is a bit of a rant of the state of automotive design in general and the Supra is just taking the brunt of my frustration.
It's understandable rant... here's my view and lil bit of rant. Realistically speaking, ppl in general won't be looking at drag reduction when they look to buy the cars. If salesman tell me "You see this? This will reduce air lift and air drag by 9%!" I'll look at him/her like WTF? or Cool story bro. Full honesty, I don't believe in having brake air duct day to day. Not sure where you live that require brake air duct or other air duct to keep brake or reduce air drag. Where I live, in the winter time, it snows and salt everywhere. Why do I need to rust more suspension parts to reduce the brake temperature in daily drive? Before hitting the prime temperature, I'm already at work.

Hate when stock car having brake air duct. Their brake fades so bad that they need brake duct to keep it cool for daily use? I get that some 911 or M series (& so on) built for track focus... but when non-track focus having those question their reliability.

As for BMW and Audi having fake vents... it's very common. Example, Audi TTS front vents are non-functional. I don't remember BMW M4 fender vents to be functional either. Let's not go into Nissan, Subaru and other brands

TBH, I think we're so used to see some of the race car feature parts trickle down into daily car. Which some parts are great and all... but in the end, it's just extra swag that's cool in fans eyes, but not that functional in daily life.

That's just my 2yen
__________________
ichitaka05 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ichitaka05 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (01-18-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 11:46 AM   #406
RayRay88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 86 860 Special Edition
Location: Toronto
Posts: 402
Thanks: 147
Thanked 323 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ichitaka05 View Post
It's understandable rant... here's my view and lil bit of rant. Realistically speaking, ppl in general won't be looking at drag reduction when they look to buy the cars. If salesman tell me "You see this? This will reduce air lift and air drag by 9%!" I'll look at him/her like WTF? or Cool story bro. Full honesty, I don't believe in having brake air duct day to day. Not sure where you live that require brake air duct or other air duct to keep brake or reduce air drag. Where I live, in the winter time, it snows and salt everywhere. Why do I need to rust more suspension parts to reduce the brake temperature in daily drive? Before hitting the prime temperature, I'm already at work.

Hate when stock car having brake air duct. Their brake fades so bad that they need brake duct to keep it cool for daily use? I get that some 911 or M series (& so on) built for track focus... but when non-track focus having those question their reliability.

As for BMW and Audi having fake vents... it's very common. Example, Audi TTS front vents are non-functional. I don't remember BMW M4 fender vents to be functional either. Let's not go into Nissan, Subaru and other brands

TBH, I think we're so used to see some of the race car feature parts trickle down into daily car. Which some parts are great and all... but in the end, it's just extra swag that's cool in fans eyes, but not that functional in daily life.

That's just my 2yen

Almost all BMW's and Audi's have brake ducts (atleast from the base 3 and A4 up)


Spoilers/Aero elements are a big selling point and way to justify design. You honestly wouldn't care if a spoiler reduced drag and got you better gas mileage? You don't think gas mileage is a big selling point for the average consumer?


Also this a SUPRA. Toyota's HALO SPORTS CAR. Yes, brakes should be a priority. If the Germans care about it on their average bread and butter cars, you best believe Toyota should care about it on the Supra.


I'm sorry but this is just a bunch of excuses for poor design.



Over all the car is growing on me. I'm not too happy with what it is as a Supra replacement (I would buy a Corvette over this in a heartbeat), but I hope it sells well and encourages Toyota to stay in the performance market.
RayRay88 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2020 Toyota 86??? Twin-Dragons Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 225 01-02-2019 12:33 PM
Official: Nissan Concept 2020 Vision Gran Turismo revealed, hints future R36 GT-R vh_supra26 Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 42 01-17-2016 02:28 AM
Nissan 2020 vs Toyota FT-1 vs Acura NSX vh_supra26 Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 35 07-08-2014 05:15 PM
Modellista Toyota 86 Revealed quik1987 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 385 12-04-2011 04:51 PM
Breaking! Toyota FT-86 II revealed? A-Spike Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 40 02-13-2011 06:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.