Boosted BRZ/FR-S vs 997 Carrera S

[TemeCal]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Anyone who is in the market I have a guy on the east coast who found mine in pristine condition ! 2 owner, both women over 45 and never tracked ! Never over revved.

Myles

Cayman S? What year? Can you PM the info, and price they're looking to get?

Thanks!

[jack43]

I had the good fortune of totally fucking *railing* a 997.1 plus my car back to back on my favorite twisty, zero-traffic AZ backroad. It is my buddy's car which is all stock on Bridgestone Potenzas.

My review? It is weird to be comparing them in the first place -- it's like apples and.. creme brulee. A pretty flattering comparison for the Twins lol. Not to resort to using the lame car reviewer's cliche of "refined" extra quotation marks.. but that's the real difference with the P car.

Plop your fat ass into the opulent Sand Beige leather and discover huge amounts of speed in any gear you want, and (especially since it was my 1st few minutes in one ever) picking anywhere on the road and that's where you go. It was so much quieter with the engine way back there -- it reminds me of this park that is 3 blocks from the zoo and you can here the Tiger roaring in the distance. Plus it is so much more solid feeling than my twin, like a big old Mercedes sedan.

Now, that all might sound like a huge thumbs up. So would I trade?? How about my buddy once he caned the shit out of mine?

We unanimously would take the 'Super Beetle' for a cross country trip. Hands down, no question. But for the shenanigans on this undisclosed road in one of the emptiest parts of the state, we had to agree on how much more how exciting my car was. Way more loud and raw, and so taut with 350# springs on coils, aggressive 2.5/2deg alignment, RS3s, light flywheel and driveshaft and all the Whiteline bushings, etc etc. And with a power to weight in the high 5s it was just out and out faster.

Anyway horses for courses. Truth be told because of sports car habitat loss, we both have sub-ideal cars for most of the time, pushing on those hard clutches in stop and go traffic.

You know the misleading car ads that try to make us forget that we are actually going to be looking at the brake lights of the PT Cruiser in front of us, and having to like, obey a bunch of laws?

[Jond63]

What wheels on that BRZ? ^^

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Jond63

What wheels on that BRZ? ^^

According to his build thread:
WedsSport TC105N 18" gunmetal 8.5 +43, 9.5 +35
Hankook Ventus RS3 235-40, 255-35

[WolfpackS2k]

I went from a boosted BRZ to a Cayman S and I have no regrets. Lots of good info in this thread, but a few points of clarification:

1) Porsche owners, at least the ones in PCA and/or ones that show up at the track, are really nice individuals. It's the uppity brand whores that give Pcar owners a bad name (but that's okay because then we buy their lightly used cars later on )
2) IMS bearing failure is greatly over-exaggerated on the M97 engine.
3) The OP seems set on a 911 S, but I feel like it's worth mentioning that a 997.1 S is no faster around most tracks than a 987.1 S. Same thing holds true for the .2 generations of both models.
4) It's worth noting that, unlike a lot of sports cars, Porsche fully expects a lot of their cars to be tracked. Their build quality reflects this, and they don't void warranties after track use. In fact a lot of dealerships support and encourage their customers to attend track days.

Anyways, hard to go wrong!

[Bawlz]

The only two Porsche's I've had any experience with were both amazing.

2009 Cayman S PDK:
No IMS issues with the new engine switch, and while it's the mini-911 this chassis outshines the 911 in handling. It still lacks serious power, but the car is more refined. Sure, a Full blown FRS would dust it on a track but while the FRS is in the lead everyone will be looking at the Cayman.
It's handling is what really surprised me. It's closer to a Lotus Elise without all the pains that come with one. Now I'm going to say this & it's going to sound bad; it's my mom's car.
The Cayman gets a lot of hate about being a girls car to the 911, but until you drive one down a twisty smooth road you will not appreciate how truly spectacular the car really is.


996-Turbo
The 996 has always been the ugly duckling of the 911s, even when it first came out everyone gave it flak about it's front bumper or headlights; basically the car wasn't the 993. Well later on the M96 engine didn't want to deal with the flak anymore and IMS failures started popping up left & right.
Porsche says it's a 10% chance it'll happen, but every person I know that had a 996 had to do wonkers maintenance to not blow their engine. Except the 996 Turbo. The Turbo version is damn near bullet proof, as far as reliability goes. Nothing beyond typical maintenance & the car's sitting at 95,621 miles this very moment. It's still the ugly duckling in the looks department, but I swapped the headlights & front bumper for the 997 front end & it's much more appealing to me. Yes yes yes, I get plenty of Elitists saying how my 911 is just wanting to be the 997, until they find out it's the Turbo model then they shut their face holes.
In my opinion the 996 Turbo is the best car you can buy for $30k-40k. I bought mine used a few years ago w/ 32,000 on it for $34k & it's nearly worth that now with nearly 3 times the miles & still performing like brand new.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Bawlz

The only two Porsche's I've had any experience with were both amazing.

2009 Cayman S PDK:
No IMS issues with the new engine switch, and while it's the mini-911 this chassis outshines the 911 in handling. It still lacks serious power, but the car is more refined. Sure, a Full blown FRS would dust it on a track but while the FRS is in the lead everyone will be looking at the Cayman.
It's handling is what really surprised me. It's closer to a Lotus Elise without all the pains that come with one. Now I'm going to say this & it's going to sound bad; it's my mom's car.
The Cayman gets a lot of hate about being a girls car to the 911, but until you drive one down a twisty smooth road you will not appreciate how truly spectacular the car really is.


996-Turbo
The 996 has always been the ugly duckling of the 911s, even when it first came out everyone gave it flak about it's front bumper or headlights; basically the car wasn't the 993. Well later on the M96 engine didn't want to deal with the flak anymore and IMS failures started popping up left & right.
Porsche says it's a 10% chance it'll happen, but every person I know that had a 996 had to do wonkers maintenance to not blow their engine. Except the 996 Turbo. The Turbo version is damn near bullet proof, as far as reliability goes. Nothing beyond typical maintenance & the car's sitting at 95,621 miles this very moment. It's still the ugly duckling in the looks department, but I swapped the headlights & front bumper for the 997 front end & it's much more appealing to me. Yes yes yes, I get plenty of Elitists saying how my 911 is just wanting to be the 997, until they find out it's the Turbo model then they shut their face holes.
In my opinion the 996 Turbo is the best car you can buy for $30k-40k. I bought mine used a few years ago w/ 32,000 on it for $34k & it's nearly worth that now with nearly 3 times the miles & still performing like brand new.

I love the 996 turbo. They are holding their value much better than the 996 (due being less prone to failure as you mentioned).

Gotta say though, there are some screaming deals on the 996's. I came close to buying one for just under $10K a few weeks ago that was in pretty good shape. Got sold right before I could get the cash out of the bank. Even with a new clutch, IMS, etc I was looking at a 996 in good shape with the right work for around $15K.

[Bawlz]

Originally Posted by thill

I love the 996 turbo. They are holding their value much better than the 996 (due being less prone to failure as you mentioned).

Gotta say though, there are some screaming deals on the 996's. I came close to buying one for just under $10K a few weeks ago that was in pretty good shape. Got sold right before I could get the cash out of the bank. Even with a new clutch, IMS, etc I was looking at a 996 in good shape with the right work for around $15K.

They're still not outrageous like a 993, but I love the 964 platform much more. If you do manage to get a 996 & the IMS blows your engine, there's some people doing LS swaps on them. It's crazy to see a LS3 in a 911, but it's practically a cheap GT3 996.

I wouldn't really recommend it, but it's an option for those who don't want to spend $10k-$15k for another M96 that'll blow up on them.

[WolfpackS2k]

If someone blew their engine, the replacement engine would have the IMS fix. So they wouldn't blow it again. Just once.


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[TemeCal]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

If someone blew their engine, the replacement engine would have the IMS fix. So they wouldn't blow it again. Just once.


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I'm pretty sure you would still have an M96 or M97 engine. While the later M97 engines were better, they are still prone to IMS failure. You would have to get a 2009+ 9A1 engine.


.

[WolfpackS2k]

There's a retro-fix available. Which someone would be foolish not to install when replacing their engine.


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[TemeCal]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

There's a retro-fix available. Which someone would be foolish not to install when replacing their engine.


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While this is true, failures have still occurred with the retro-fixes (ceramic). The possibility of failure has been greatly reduced, but it is still present. This is the exact reason I went with a 9A1 engine in mine.

With that said, I do think IMS issues have been a bit overblown. If I did own one with an M97 engine, I'd be proactive and replace it with the better bearing. A little added cost, but much better peace of mind.

Out of curiosity, does yours have the "fix"?

.

[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

There's a retro-fix available. Which someone would be foolish not to install when replacing their engine.


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The retrofit doesn't fix the massive design flaw with the engine though and is only available for the M96 engines. The retrofit simply increases the load capabilities of the bearing and still has to be serviced/replaced at regular intervals. Porsche also cheaped out on the rod bolts and they like to let go as well. Anyway, there are inherent fatal flaws with the M9x engines that aren't issues with the 9a1 and Mezger units. That's not to say they're not fantastic cars to drive, it's just a risk you have to accept and budget for.

[Turbowned]

I was never a fan of the 996 but considering you can get a turbo for the cost of an early 997 Carrera S, it makes sense to consider that car, too. Especially because the prices of all older turbos are on the rise. Eventually time will forget about the Boxster headlamps and the 996 turbo will be worth big money, too. I'll need to drive both and decide from there; it's hard to find them for sale in my area. EPL down in CT does amazing work with 996tt's; not unheard of to see 700+ hp cars leaving after spending some time in their shop

Originally Posted by Bawlz

The only two Porsche's I've had any experience with were both amazing.

2009 Cayman S PDK:
No IMS issues with the new engine switch, and while it's the mini-911 this chassis outshines the 911 in handling. It still lacks serious power, but the car is more refined. Sure, a Full blown FRS would dust it on a track but while the FRS is in the lead everyone will be looking at the Cayman.
It's handling is what really surprised me. It's closer to a Lotus Elise without all the pains that come with one. Now I'm going to say this & it's going to sound bad; it's my mom's car.
The Cayman gets a lot of hate about being a girls car to the 911, but until you drive one down a twisty smooth road you will not appreciate how truly spectacular the car really is.


996-Turbo
The 996 has always been the ugly duckling of the 911s, even when it first came out everyone gave it flak about it's front bumper or headlights; basically the car wasn't the 993. Well later on the M96 engine didn't want to deal with the flak anymore and IMS failures started popping up left & right.
Porsche says it's a 10% chance it'll happen, but every person I know that had a 996 had to do wonkers maintenance to not blow their engine. Except the 996 Turbo. The Turbo version is damn near bullet proof, as far as reliability goes. Nothing beyond typical maintenance & the car's sitting at 95,621 miles this very moment. It's still the ugly duckling in the looks department, but I swapped the headlights & front bumper for the 997 front end & it's much more appealing to me. Yes yes yes, I get plenty of Elitists saying how my 911 is just wanting to be the 997, until they find out it's the Turbo model then they shut their face holes.
In my opinion the 996 Turbo is the best car you can buy for $30k-40k. I bought mine used a few years ago w/ 32,000 on it for $34k & it's nearly worth that now with nearly 3 times the miles & still performing like brand new.