max "potential" NA power.

[StormTrooper]

What Honda do you know of that has low end torque and revs high and makes power?

Honda is known for making rev happy torqueless wonders...

[industrial]

The k24 in the new si was for all the people that whine about low end torque. I much preferred the k20 in the previous si. It's a matter of preference. I don't mind giving up low end torque to have more power up top. I get that it's funnier to scoot around town with a torquey motor but that's not the point if a sports car is it? As long as the gearbox can keep you in the power band, why wouldn't you want it to be from 6000-8000 rather than 3000-5000 rpm? You make more power from the same torque and it feels more exciting IMO.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

What Honda do you know of that has low end torque and revs high and makes power?

Honda is known for making rev happy torqueless wonders...

That's not really possible.

All depends on what you want from an engine, if your into drag racing sure torques nice otherwise horsepower > torque.

[StormTrooper]

I honestly really like where are cars are...now a 2.2L with about 15 more tq and the same tuning(minus the dip) would have been better. Or a 2500lb car.


I want a balance btw a rotory and a k24 and i think we got it.

But then I really liked the 24v VR6. Torque everywhere and immediate response smooth as butter.

If it wasnt made by VW i might still have that GTI.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Power everywhere and immediate response smooth as butter.

Fixed.

Originally Posted by Ice

otherwise horsepower > torque.

That makes no sense. You can't have power without torque (though you can have torque without power).
People still discuss torque and power as though they are independent of each other.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

That makes no sense. You can't have power without torque (though you can have torque without power).
People still discuss torque and power as though they are independent of each other.

Correct. But the effects they have on a car are different and is what I was speaking of.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ice

Correct. But the effects they have on a car are different and is what I was speaking of.

Pardon me but I refute this statement.It might have low end torque which gives it low end power. The only effect is power; where it occurs is a different matter. A good spread of torque equals a good spread of power.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Pardon me but I refute this statement.It might have low end torque which gives it low end power. The only effect is power; where it occurs is a different matter. A good spread of torque equals a good spread of power.

How do you refute?

HP is a measurement of the application of torque, as in how much torque is applied over a given amount of time. Where as torque is simply a measurement of force at a given instant. Acceleration of a car is denoted by the HP, NOT the torque.

I stated that torque is good in drag racing because generally you want to run as fewer gears as possible to reduce shift times. Perhaps its an assumption on my part?

[StormTrooper]

Pretty sure swapping a CBR 1000 engine into a scion TC would not make it faster.....not enough torque

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ice

How do you refute?..... Perhaps its an assumption on my part?

I suggest these two articles. Both say essentially the same thing in different ways.
http://www.fjr1300.info/misc/torque-power.html
http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

[industrial]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Pretty sure swapping a CBR 1000 engine into a scion TC would not make it faster.....not enough torque

That's a pretty extreme example. I guess on the flip side you could say swapping a vw 2.0 tdi motor with 236lb-ft of torque and 140hp would also make for a slow car. Plenty of torque...

Torquey low revving motors are great for towing, emissions and fuel economy. That's why you see so many today. That's also why Honda discontinued the f20, k20 and other awesome sporty motors. 8000+ rpm is bad for emissions and fuel economy.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by stevo_12v

Titanium valve springs!!
And probably a fair bit of ceramic coating on those engine bay goodies

Or titanium valves so you don't have to run firmer valve springs

[StormTrooper]

What I was getting at is you should have a base level torque for the weight of vehicle.

Our cars should have come with JDL/HKS/Nameless headers.

[diodelphi]

most go for turbo kit but i really like to see more NA tune result.