BRZ vs Mustang - Here is the review the haters have been waiting for.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Your wrote "the FR-S/BRZ on 215s has more tire width per weight than the V6 Mustang on 255s". There are many other factors that affect grip, one of them being that bigger tires will also increase contact patch.

1. Bigger tires don't necessarily give a bigger contact patch.
2. Bigger contact patch doesn't necessarily give greater grip

Bigger contact patch at the same loading per square inch will generally give more grip, but that means a heavier load hence commensurately greater grip is *required* just to pull the same cornering g's if all the load is coming from mass and not aero.

I had said that the FR-S/BRZ has more tire width per weight vs. the Mustang. You said:

It's not just width. The Mustang's 255/40R19 tires have a larger diameter, so in addition to a wider contact patch, the Mustang also has a longer contact patch.

Obviously there are other advantages to smaller tires; my point was simply that you really can't only look at tire width per weight.

Wider tires o generate more lateral grip and it's not due to "increased contact patch". How much more is generally overstated and it is going to be something less than a straight linear relationship.

Taller tires do not inherently generate more lateral grip.

Generally, a shorter/wider contact patch is better for handling, and a longer/narrower contact patch is better for drag racing.

For a given tire construction, "contact patch" is a strong function of inflation pressure and weight, not so much tire width and diameter.

[Kunzite]

Originally Posted by SuqMadiq

I do know it can be drastically improved because, wait for it... its been out for several years now and it's proven. Heck, with just the mods the Boss 302 has, the Mustang is capable of pulling over 1 g on the skidpad. The V6 would probably do even better as it has less weight up front. Surely, it can achieve better handling.

Now, what I was saying about the BR-Z was actually a compliment, though it does IMO affect what can be done to improve it. The BR-Z clearly has better handling, and that's the primary reason why it came close to running the same lap times as the Mustang. Because, the BR-Z was designed around its handling capabilities, I honestly believe there will be less room for improvement than what you would find in the Mustang. Don't take this as the Mustang will handle better in the long run. My point is all about the potential improvement in handling, not overall which is better.

IMO grip does not equal handling, and that 1g figure I'm certain it's not with Michelin Primacy tires.
Things are quite simple: stock vs stock, the BRZ/86 seems to have way better handling characteristics. Put the same amount of money in tuning them, and I doubt this will change - you will improve the BRZ/86, but correct Mustang's faults. Again, that's IMO - I'm no expert.
I'd always have a well made cake instead of a turd, even with its much potential in improving the taste... (I'm not trying to insult the Mustang here, just to make a point)

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

... The GT completely shits on everything under 90k. And the V6 shits on everything in its price group too. Hell, the v6 shit on the STI on an equal opportunity track, while bouncing off the rev limiter for a few seconds. Anyone who thinks the new mustangs can't handle a turn are living in another world.
....

Wow, really? That's the best you can do?

All that makes me think is why in the world would I want to own such a shitty car. Hope it comes with Depends.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Your wrote "the FR-S/BRZ on 215s has more tire width per weight than the V6 Mustang on 255s". There are many other factors that affect grip, one of them being that bigger tires will also increase contact patch. Obviously there are other advantages to smaller tires; my point was simply that you really can't only look at tire width per weight.


I never said it did.

Bigger tires don't increase contact patch. Adding weight or losing psi do

[TRD_07]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

so does anyone in this thread actually read the previous posts before they reply? people are just saying the same things over and over...

[TRD_07]

I would like to see a GC 2.0T R-spec vs the BRZ/FRS at a track which would be a 4cyl vs 4cyl. Not a 6cyl vs 4cyl.

[bimmerboy]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

so does anyone in this thread actually read the previous posts before they reply? people are just saying the same things over and over...

so much fanboi-ism in this thread..

[Lighting Red]

Originally Posted by bimmerboy

so much fanboi-ism in this thread..

That's why I titled the thread the way I did

[Turbowned]

I'd consider the Mustang if I lived in Japan. No, seriously. If I lived someplace where the roads didn't resemble post-WWII bombed-out airfields and/or the surface of the moon, I might consider the Mustang. But when Angus mentions that one little midcorner bump unsettles the solid rear end, I'm walking away. And it may cost more money to do so, but a BRZ with the same power-to-weight ratio would walk on the tarted-up secretary-mobile.

More horsepower in a fundamentally-flawed chassis doesn't do it for me; just like I don't give a crap that the Renault Sport Megane 256 Trophy (exhausting name) beat out the BRZ in a performance test. Again, if the BRZ had the same power-to-weight ratio as the Renault (and mine certainly will, sooner or later), it would get walked on.

[tripjammer]

I am in a youtube war with a bunch of Mustang people.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I am in a youtube war with a bunch of Mustang people.

Mother of God. Talk about fighting a losing battle.

[blur]

Lol random thought, 5.0 in the 86 chassis would be an absolute rocket... of course with supporting mods.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I am in a youtube war with a bunch of Mustang people.

I wouldn't even argue with them Trip. Both cars is great cars at what they do best so I don't have any hate for both cars but I would still choose a BRZ over the Stang mainly because of the LRA and the seating position being higher and a long hood that isn't slung low to see the road ahead better.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by blur

Lol random thought, 5.0 in the 86 chassis would be an absolute rocket... of course with supporting mods.

It would turn into a muscle car that handles worst in feel and numbers than a Mustang V6 PP. The balance would be 57/43 and it would be so damn nose heavy. I realize the strengths and weakness of a 4 cylinder is better handling against great acceleration. If you put a 2.0l N/A 4 cylinder engine inside of a Stang it will handle as well or close to something like a FRS but it would sacrifice acceleration in which Mustang lovers can't deal with.