Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Guff]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

3000 lbs can be done. The bulkier Civic Type R weighs in at a touch over 3100 lbs. RWD will add a bit of weight but the Supra being higher priced can make more use of aluminium or extremely high-strength steel to keep the weight down and still come in at an acceptable build cost.

Man, I wish I still had this much optimism in life.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So you think BMW is going to build the lightest car it's built in 15 years?

man you crack me up 10/10

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

3000 lbs can be done. The bulkier Civic Type R weighs in at a touch over 3100 lbs. RWD will add a bit of weight but the Supra being higher priced can make more use of aluminium or extremely high-strength steel to keep the weight down and still come in at an acceptable build cost.

The Civic is also a FWD economy car.


The C7 Corvette weighs 33XXlbs and it only has 2 seats and a simple NA v8.


If the Supra weighs 3200lbs or less it will be a miracle.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So you think BMW is going to build the lightest car it's built in 15 years?

No, I am talking about the Toyota version with the 4 cylinder in it. I am sure the BMW will weigh another 200+ lbs.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

No, I am talking about the Toyota version with the 4 cylinder in it. I am sure the BMW will weigh another 200+ lbs.

IIRC the 2017 4-cylinder Cayman weighs 31XXlbs. I can't imagine the Supra being much less than that.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The Civic is also a FWD economy car.


The C7 Corvette weighs 33XXlbs and it only has 2 seats and a simple NA v8.


If the Supra weighs 3200lbs or less it will be a miracle.

The Corvette uses a platform designed and developed about 7 years ago and sports a relatively heavy v8. With the use of lighter structural and body materials that are being applied more widely in car manufacturing these days, a smaller Supra with a significantly lighter turbo 4 should easily come in 300 lbs under the Vette.

[gymratter]

BMW has both the current 6 cyl Z4s at 3,527 lbs / 3,549 lbs and the 4 cyl model at 3,263 lbs.

it is worth noting that BMW's new CLAR platform has saved a little weight on the new 5 & 7.

i would also imagine the Toyota version to be lighter than the BMW simply because its a coupe vs convertible.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

IIRC the 2017 4-cylinder Cayman weighs 31XXlbs. I can't imagine the Supra being much less than that.

You're a bit high there - according to Porsche the base Cayman is 2988 lbs.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The Corvette uses a platform designed and developed about 7 years ago and sports a relatively heavy v8.

The LT1 weighs around 465lbs. Not bad for a v8 making 450hp.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

You're a bit high there - according to Porsche the base Cayman is 2988 lbs.

I would be surprised if someone actually had a Cayman that isn't at least 3000lbs on a real world scale. I'm sure the 29XX number is some marketing magic. I could be wrong though. I would love to see a MY17 Cayman on a real scale.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

No, I am talking about the Toyota version with the 4 cylinder in it. I am sure the BMW will weigh another 200+ lbs.

BMW's current lightest platform is the 2-door Mini cooper, it's ~2,760 lbs with the B48, extras removed and light on fuel, front wheel drive, super basic rear suspension, and NVH to rival the 86.

Like the 86 it would be silly if the cars weren't practically identical between the badges (variations increase cost dramatically), whatever measures BMW puts in to make a comfy grand touring cruiser Z5 that aren't snap-on in a few seconds (like the trunk liner in the BRZ) will be on the Toyota version.

Like others said, imo it'll be a miracle if it's under 3,200 lbs, regardless of trim. Possible? Sure, but likely not in their top priorities list, the standard for this class (2-door GT, not a ~$60k sports car) right now is >3,400 lbs, I'd expect that even in a 4-banger (although they'd probably crank it up to 300+ ft-lbs which would make as quick feeling as a stock Mk4 Poopra Tarbo or current 4/6 cylinder Mustang/Camaro).

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The LT1 weighs around 465lbs. Not bad for a v8 making 450hp.

True.

Engine weights for 4 cylinder turbos are a little hard to find, but the BMW N20 is reported to weigh 128kg or about 300 lbs. The N20 is an older design outputting about 250hp, so assuming Toyota/BMW can get about 300hp out of an engine of the same mass for the Supra that is going to save about 165 lbs over a V8.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The Corvette uses a platform designed and developed about 7 years ago and sports a relatively heavy v8. With the use of lighter structural and body materials that are being applied more widely in car manufacturing these days, a smaller Supra with a significantly lighter turbo 4 should easily come in 300 lbs under the Vette.

Good lord you are a good troll!

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

BMW's current lightest platform is the 2-door Mini cooper, it's ~2,760 lbs with the B48, extras removed and light on fuel, front wheel drive, super basic rear suspension, and NVH to rival the 86.

Like the 86 it would be silly if the cars weren't practically identical between the badges (variations increase cost dramatically), whatever measures BMW puts in to make a comfy grand touring cruiser Z5 that aren't snap-on in a few seconds (like the trunk liner in the BRZ) will be on the Toyota version.

Like others said, imo it'll be a miracle if it's under 3,200 lbs, regardless of trim. Possible? Sure, but likely not in their top priorities list, the standard for this class (2-door GT, not a ~$60k sports car) right now is >3,400 lbs, I'd expect that even in a 4-banger (although they'd probably crank it up to 300+ ft-lbs which would make as quick feeling as a stock Mk4 Poopra Tarbo or current 4/6 cylinder Mustang/Camaro).

Don't forget that (unlike the case of the twins) there will be structural differences between the BMW and Toyota versions due to the fact that the Bimmer variant will be a soft-top and the Supra will be a coupe - which typically saves one to two hundred pounds in body weight. Plus I was assuming that only the Toyota would be getting a 4 banger (I remember reading that on one of the more reliable auto sites, but that info of course could be wrong). If that's in fact the case, there's an additional 80 lbs or so shaved off the Toyota's weight.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

due to the fact that the Bimmer varian will be softtop-only and the Supra will be a coupe

That is 100% pure unfounded speculation. Enjoy your fan-fiction.