follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-13-2020, 09:55 PM   #15
Project_1796
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: Scion FRS 10 series
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 39
Thanks: 6
Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Breadman my rear does not clunk, I'd re-torque everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breadman View Post
i can second that i feel so much more planted with them installed. with that said does your rear clunk now?
Project_1796 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Project_1796 For This Useful Post:
Purist (08-14-2020)
Old 08-14-2020, 03:03 AM   #16
Purist
Senior Member
 
Purist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: Australia
Posts: 349
Thanks: 125
Thanked 261 Times in 145 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Okay. I'm doing the whole rear end. Subframe, diff and suspension. Might cure the axle tramp that's costing me precious tenths.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
__________________
Less More
Purist is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Purist For This Useful Post:
DarkPira7e (08-14-2020), why? (08-14-2020)
Old 08-14-2020, 07:28 AM   #17
Breadman
Senior Member
 
Breadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Drives: 2017 BRZ w/PP
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,027
Thanks: 51
Thanked 302 Times in 225 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Project_1796 View Post
Breadman my rear does not clunk, I'd re-torque everything

i did and thats why i thought it was just new nvh. i need to check to see if maybe my exhaust is contacting. there arent any ball joints in the rear to go bad are there?
Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 08:02 AM   #18
grumpysnapper
Senior Member
 
grumpysnapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: BRZ
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 351
Thanks: 308
Thanked 605 Times in 208 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I wouldn't make it a priority and they definitely won't work miracles (unless your existing bushes are in sub standard condition).
In terms of road use, modern suspension is designed to factor in controlled bush movements.
Companies that sell "stiffer" bushes are simply trying to sell lots of stiffer bushes...so a video actually showing a modern suspension system working quite well is then interpreted as wobbling around all over the place...
grumpysnapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 08:39 AM   #19
gpvecchi
Senior Member
 
gpvecchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Drives: Toyota 86 GT Limited PP (Model G)
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,016
Thanks: 402
Thanked 334 Times in 186 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Standard bushes are soft as the ones of a city car, a sport car needs stiffer bushes. I fitted all the TRD ones and now I can say response is what you expect from a sport car.
gpvecchi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 09:20 AM   #20
Ernest72
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Drives: 16 Silver BRZ, 04 Silver WRX wagon
Location: Rockland county, NY
Posts: 1,410
Thanks: 181
Thanked 768 Times in 439 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So I have done the subframe inserts and can vouch for them. I am hesitant to do more because I can tell you first hand about my experience with 04 WRX. I know it’s a different platform but you might learn something.

I added every harder bushing (group n rubber or poly) and the wagon handled so much better, turned on rails, really liked it. Also added some braces, ft and rear strut tower, fender cowls, fr crossmember.

I liked it because it’s a rally car right? Well any female and many normal people who drove with me thought the car was cool but harsh. On smooth roads it was fine, but on rough roads it was so obvious. It also made a huge difference depending on tires. Summers with hard sidewalls made it worse , although it handled even better. Snows with soft sidewall felt like a vacation from the harshness and is what really opened my eyes about the NVH.

The biggest culprits were the fr control arm poly bushing - causes you to feel every perpendicular crack in the road, railroad crossings are hell.

Also the outrigger bushings with the diff bushings caused an off throttle whine from the rear diff. This can be annoying and other times not so much. But it’s there because people have asked me what it is.

I have 142k on her and she has been like this since about 70k, so I survived but I can tell you when I get out of the car and then drive my wife’s IS300 it becomes so obvious how much harsher it is. And I am someone who likes raw harsh cars.

So if you are more sensitive to these things, think it through and perhaps try to get a ride in someone’s car with the mods you want.

I would add one more thing. The Impreza platform needs more help than the twins.
Ernest72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 09:35 AM   #21
Yoshoobaroo
TRACKBREAD
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,929
Thanks: 2,660
Thanked 4,024 Times in 1,895 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
I had subframe inserts first, then added Diff bushing inserts.

I ended up taking the subframe inserts out because the increased harshness was too much for a DD. The diff inserts I kept cause they do a good job minimizing driveline lash and axle tramp (wheel hop). And they don’t contribute much NVH at all.
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 11:11 AM   #22
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 5,393
Thanks: 3,406
Thanked 7,233 Times in 2,957 Posts
Mentioned: 303 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest72 View Post
So I have done the subframe inserts and can vouch for them. I am hesitant to do more because I can tell you first hand about my experience with 04 WRX. I know it’s a different platform but you might learn something.

I added every harder bushing (group n rubber or poly) and the wagon handled so much better, turned on rails, really liked it. Also added some braces, ft and rear strut tower, fender cowls, fr crossmember.

I liked it because it’s a rally car right? Well any female and many normal people who drove with me thought the car was cool but harsh. On smooth roads it was fine, but on rough roads it was so obvious. It also made a huge difference depending on tires. Summers with hard sidewalls made it worse , although it handled even better. Snows with soft sidewall felt like a vacation from the harshness and is what really opened my eyes about the NVH.

The biggest culprits were the fr control arm poly bushing - causes you to feel every perpendicular crack in the road, railroad crossings are hell.

Also the outrigger bushings with the diff bushings caused an off throttle whine from the rear diff. This can be annoying and other times not so much. But it’s there because people have asked me what it is.

I have 142k on her and she has been like this since about 70k, so I survived but I can tell you when I get out of the car and then drive my wife’s IS300 it becomes so obvious how much harsher it is. And I am someone who likes raw harsh cars.

So if you are more sensitive to these things, think it through and perhaps try to get a ride in someone’s car with the mods you want.

I would add one more thing. The Impreza platform needs more help than the twins.
This definitely happens a lot...you just keep adding more and more and end up with something that's a bit too much.

IMO poly can sometimes be the culprit, or at least poly in the wrong place. Even spherical bearings are a better choice in some locations. Not all poly is bad though.

STI Group N rubber is almost always a good "sport" option.

In addition to that, firmer bushings will highlight deficiencies in your dampers. It's asking more from your shocks to deal with so if they're really good shocks...you're going to do okay. If your shocks aren't quite as advanced...OR you can't make a few necessary adjustments...you'll feel their shortcomings a little more.

One way to put it...take a set of crappy coilovers with bad valving and not enough travel. Switch between OEM rubber top mounts and camber plates and the difference in ride is big. With a very good coilover, switching between rubber top mounts and camber plates is a smaller difference in ride.

With the diff and subframe inserts, there is a slight increase in gear whine and a slight "thunk" when engaging a lower gear. This decreases with time in my experience. For me it's not bad overall.

- Andrew
Racecomp Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Racecomp Engineering For This Useful Post:
DarkPira7e (08-14-2020), Ernest72 (08-14-2020), Ohio Enthusiast (08-14-2020)
Old 08-14-2020, 12:37 PM   #23
Ernest72
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Drives: 16 Silver BRZ, 04 Silver WRX wagon
Location: Rockland county, NY
Posts: 1,410
Thanks: 181
Thanked 768 Times in 439 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering View Post
This definitely happens a lot...you just keep adding more and more and end up with something that's a bit too much.

IMO poly can sometimes be the culprit, or at least poly in the wrong place. Even spherical bearings are a better choice in some locations. Not all poly is bad though.

STI Group N rubber is almost always a good "sport" option.

In addition to that, firmer bushings will highlight deficiencies in your dampers. It's asking more from your shocks to deal with so if they're really good shocks...you're going to do okay. If your shocks aren't quite as advanced...OR you can't make a few necessary adjustments...you'll feel their shortcomings a little more.

One way to put it...take a set of crappy coilovers with bad valving and not enough travel. Switch between OEM rubber top mounts and camber plates and the difference in ride is big. With a very good coilover, switching between rubber top mounts and camber plates is a smaller difference in ride.

With the diff and subframe inserts, there is a slight increase in gear whine and a slight "thunk" when engaging a lower gear. This decreases with time in my experience. For me it's not bad overall.

- Andrew
Totally agree I am on STI wagon pinks with AGX shocks. I dialed damping back from 2 to 3, all around. As things go I will be looking to replace poly with group N when possible.
Ernest72 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ernest72 For This Useful Post:
Racecomp Engineering (08-14-2020)
Old 08-14-2020, 01:03 PM   #24
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,119
Thanks: 18,091
Thanked 16,254 Times in 7,347 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
I had subframe inserts first, then added Diff bushing inserts.

I ended up taking the subframe inserts out because the increased harshness was too much for a DD. The diff inserts I kept cause they do a good job minimizing driveline lash and axle tramp (wheel hop). And they don’t contribute much NVH at all.
I am on SPL solid subframe mounts. It is like I have a microphone amplifying every noise the car makes.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
Purist (08-14-2020), Yoshoobaroo (08-14-2020)
Old 08-16-2020, 11:41 PM   #25
Turdinator
Señor Member
 
Turdinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: 86 GT/'74 TA22 Celica/Kangaroo
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,706
Thanks: 1,104
Thanked 764 Times in 478 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
I have read a few discussions on axle hope on here and not seen much in the way of definite results. Have you looked into the MCA traction mod?
__________________
1974 TA22 Celica
2013 86 GT
Turdinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 04:29 AM   #26
Purist
Senior Member
 
Purist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: Australia
Posts: 349
Thanks: 125
Thanked 261 Times in 145 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdinator View Post
I have read a few discussions on axle hope on here and not seen much in the way of definite results. Have you looked into the MCA traction mod?
Yeah I have them installed. It is hard to find definitive info on curing it. Seems like you need the right mix of throttle modulation, tyre pressure, spring rate and valving.



Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
__________________
Less More
Purist is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Purist For This Useful Post:
Turdinator (08-17-2020)
Old 08-18-2020, 12:05 PM   #27
solidONE
Senior Member
 
solidONE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Drives: FR-S Whiteout
Location: California
Posts: 2,863
Thanks: 1,808
Thanked 790 Times in 611 Posts
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I installed just last year.. I suppose my OE ones were getting worn. The throttle feels more direct. Less slop in the driveline, more responsive to throttle. Less delay from me stepping on the throttle and the torque from the crank reaching the tires..
__________________
Intent > Content

cowardice is the mother of cruelty.
solidONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2020, 02:53 PM   #28
chaoskaze
The Fail Boat
 
chaoskaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: CWP S.B.
Location: LasVegas
Posts: 3,028
Thanks: 4,718
Thanked 1,293 Times in 873 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist View Post
You can feel the diff move? Maybe I'm not experienced enough as a driver.

The diff moving can not affect the suspension geometry in any way so I don't know what people are feeling, but it's not the diff moving.

Yes, You can feel it from the drive train slop.

It's pretty obvious once you feel the difference when the drift shaft is under load.


do you have any body brace? thicker axle & a chassis brace like this will also help with wheel hop/body torsion. *not my car.


Last edited by chaoskaze; 08-25-2020 at 03:04 PM.
chaoskaze is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to chaoskaze For This Useful Post:
Purist (08-26-2020)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
soft diff bushes? notout86 Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 38 05-30-2018 11:37 PM
Any idea where these bushes go? Captain Snooze Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 8 04-06-2015 01:12 PM
Anyone fitted Super-Pro Poly Subframe Bushes?? Nigelr32 Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 2 10-14-2014 04:11 PM
What are the benefits/costs of an aftermarket diff? dave77 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 1 03-30-2014 12:43 AM
AVO or Perrin Front LCA bushes? Captain Snooze Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 2 05-02-2013 05:51 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.