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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 02-17-2014, 10:54 AM   #1
AustinTX
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John's CS BRZ progression

I figured I'd go ahead and make my own thread to avoid continuing to pollute the CS discussion thread.

I'm John, I've need autocrossing for 12 years now. I've been to nationals 7 times, trophied 5. Finished 8th in STS in 2009 (in Hollis's Civic), 10th in STU in 2010 (after coning the first day away), 2nd in STU in 2011, 3rd in STU in 2013, and 10th in CS with the BRZ in 2014. I had been driving in STX and STU with AWD cars for much of those 11 years, so I bought the BRZ late last year to push myself to be proficient in RWD. In other words - I got tired of people saying I could only drive FWD/AWD cars

I live in Austin Texas - home of Texas Spokes. Plenty of national level competition and several national champions here. Home of the Hollis's, the Strelneiks', Drew Vanderploeg, and most recently Brian Burdette.

On to the important stuff - my efforts in getting the BRZ up to the top spots at big events.
The car is currently fully prepped for CS:
17x7 RPF1's with 235 Z2's
Koni's
crash bolts
Strano front swaybar
Perrin 2.5" resonated catback
K&N filter

Nationals setup as of 9/5/14:
- 245/40R17 RS3V2'S on RPF1's. 38F/36R pressure
- Perrin 19mm front bar on stiff setting (74% stiffer than stock)
- Koni Yellow shocks set full stiff up front and 1 turn from soft in the rear
- Max front camber with crash bolts, 0 toe. 1/8" out per side on the rear
- Perrin 2.5" unresonated catback
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:54 AM   #2
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Here's my first event in the car. I did not have the front swaybar yet for this event. 1100 miles on the odometer

The car performed pretty well, pretty easy to keep on the limits, but quite a bit of throttle oversteer. Time to order a front swaybar. I had the front shocks at full stiff and the rears at full soft. I do not think that the Koni's have enough bump for this car, but I'll give 'em a few more events.

I was typically chasing the top PAX spot in my old STU STI or in most competitive cars that I codrive, but not so much this time out. I finished 20th out of 165 in my open runs (1.3 PAX seconds off the lead) and 13th in my double entry runs (0.8 seconds off). I know the CS PAX is tough, but I needed another second to get it done. Ouch!
Results: https://axwaresystems.com/axorm/file...an2014_pax.htm
Video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhFMyJgP5is"]CS BRZ first event SASCA 1/26/14 - YouTube[/ame]
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:09 PM   #3
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2nd event done. First event with a Strano front bar installed (thanks DWX). The car drove much better with the bar on. Finished 13th of 149 in PAX - 1 second out of the lead.
Results:https://axwaresystems.com/axorm/file...eb2014_pax.htm. Still a bit disappointed with the pace, as I'm getting stomped in X class (in which I have won the championship for the last 2 years).

The course was big power. I was rev limiting at the end of each fast section. Please feel free to critique anything you see. The biggest issue mentioned so far is that I could have went a little wider in the last sweeper and entered the final slalom faster. I was rev limiting for a good bit through the finish.
Video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rx5qI6mEHE"]CS BRZ at SASCA 2/9/14 - YouTube[/ame]
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:12 PM   #4
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Im right at the point of ordering 225/45 or 235/40....thoughts? Too spongy on the 235s?
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:21 PM   #5
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Third event done. Gradually getting closer to the top. I finished 13th in overall PAX yet again (some kind of pattern developing), but the delta is now down to 0.7 seconds - starting to get into the noise with the 2014 PAX index. My posted time was 36.6, but my 4th run was actually around .2 faster based on video analysis. Unfortunately, a false trip took that run away from me. The vids below are the fastest run and then the rerun. I'm still chunking the car around a bit much, but I've narrowed the setup down a bit at least. I'm currently running the fronts 1 turn from stiff and the rears soft, 36F/32R on pressures. I still feel like the car could use more bump damping up front, as it turns in a bit too abruptly.

This course was pretty well suited to the car. Never rev limited, only a couple corners that got into the dip. The grip at this site is a bit strange, as it's heavily patched concrete. The old concrete is nice and grippy, but the new stuff was polished for some reason. Very slippery stuff as you will see in the back sweeper. Watch the 2nd video for some ridiculous drifting action after a rerun and quick turnaround. Z2's really don't like to be warm...

Results: https://axwaresystems.com/axorm/file...event1_pax.htm
Video of fastest run:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OU_MrrwaSU"]Spokes 021614 best run - YouTube[/ame]

Video of mad drifting with EBFD trying its best to keep me from holding the drift: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_X00sSI9B8"]Spokes 0216 Drifting run - YouTube[/ame]
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vroom4 View Post
Im right at the point of ordering 225/45 or 235/40....thoughts? Too spongy on the 235s?
Not sure. I haven't tried other sizes yet. I just bought what people said was working at the time of purchase There are several people in my area with a twin, so hopefully we can all start swapping wheels to try different tire combinations.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:44 PM   #7
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I'm not too sold on the 235/40 myself... The car has a short second gear, and that limiter is devastating the way it cuts out and takes so long to rebound. With the smaller circumference of the 235/40 you are going to be hitting that cut earlier.

Specification Sidewall Radius Diameter Circumference Revs/Mile Difference
215/45-17 3.8in 12.3in 24.6in 77.3in 819 0.0%
225/45-17 4.0in 12.5in 25.0in 78.5in 808 1.4%
235/45-17 4.2in 12.7in 25.3in 79.6in 796 2.9%
235/40-17 3.7in 12.2in 24.4in 76.7in 827 -0.9%

I have 235/45 ZII's on order.

My theory is, the car is already underpowered, and likely will already be an underdog on power courses to the Z-cars nationally... so I am going to hedge my bets on the fast flowing courses by getting the most I possibly can out of the top end of second. Additionally, with the taller 45 A/R, the sidewall will be less pinched than the 40, creating a more ideal tire dynamic and sidewall. The ideal rim width range of the 40 A/R has a min of 8", the 45 A/R has a min of 7.5"... I figure only being 1/2" out of bounds isn't going to exhibit as much negative effects due to pinch as being a whole inch out.

That's my theory, we'll see how it goes... FWIW it should be right around a 2.25 MPH difference between the 235/40 and the 235/45 in 2nd.
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:01 PM   #8
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My train of thought was to improve acceleration and avoid the torque dip as much as possible with the shorter tires. I'm pretty comfortable with shifting after many years in the STI However, I definitely want to try several sizes and brands back to back. I do feel that the 235's are causing odd behavior, but I won't be sure until I can swap wheels with someone on narrower tires.
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:09 PM   #9
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Definitely... the 225/45-17, 235/40-17, and the 235/45-17 all have their advantages and disadvantages for sure.


Couldn't we all just make this simple and run on 245/40-17 A6's and be done with it!
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:15 PM   #10
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I have always said that if the stock classes would switch to street tires, I'd run stock. So, I'm putting my money where my mouth is.
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:43 PM   #11
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Ok, after hearing that its a 'ehh, not sure' for most people, Ill run a 225/45/17 Z2 in CS and a 225/45/17 R1-S in CS-R. The 225 R1-S measured out to ~243.
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:52 PM   #12
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Shotgun approach

I am not thinking there is a whole heck of a lot to be gained from one option over the others, it'll probably be very course dependent which option gets the minor advantage, and I don't think any of us will be showing up to events with 3 tire size options... so pick your poison and go from there. I'm expecting my set #2 to be different from set #1.

Sorry to hi-jack your build thread into yet another tire discussion John!

EDIT: Also to add to my thoughts above, hopefully I can compensate for slightly taller final gearing by applying throttle earlier than most out of corners.
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:56 PM   #13
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I thought every autox thread was a tire thread!?

Carry on John, if it makes you feel better, just multiple CS-R PAX by .98 and see where you end up outside of the RR fantasy land.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:04 PM   #14
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I'm just as curious as you guys are about tires. The more info, the better.

I'm almost where I want to be with the car right now. It's still at least .5 off, but I think I'll get it there.

There is a correct 370Z in our region, and he just bought RE11's for it. I'll codrive with him soon and see what the score is...
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