Video: Toyota GR86 SPIED for the First Time!

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by StE92ve

I've been examining the spy shots and if you look closely at the rear trunk lid, it might be heavily camouflaged with a fake lid. There seems to be a bulge on the top and what appears to be a seam just below the tail.

Look at the how the supra's rear trunk is designed (with a little bit of CHR taillight sticking out) I think this is kind of following that. It looks a bit poofy to try to hide the slope on the trunk lid.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Rampage

When car companies attempt to take a "well loved" model and "do more" then they end up with a disaster like the Mitsubishi Eclipse transition. The 86/FR-S/BRZ has drawn citical acclaim and rave reviews for its styling, size and driving dynamics. I would much rather see an evolution of that than a revolution of design that would probably destroy all the things that made the previous model great. There is no changing the fact that sports cars are all "niche" models made for people who still enjoy driving. That market is continuing and will continue to shrink. The Eclipse is now a SUV. Now that is a revolution of the original design and purpose of the car.









For a car as great as the 86, evolution is enough.

100% agree.
I was not giving my personal preferences nor saying in any way that I personally wanted the big changes but simply trying to convey that the small changes will not open the market up for this car.
The atrocities that happened to the DSM line up in general and specifically the Eclipse is unfortunately what sells these cars to the masses.
Personally I am more than happy to see the small changes but if they are not enough to make the car sell then it will be doomed to disappear.
The fun part is that I have to wonder how many people lamenting the passing of sportscars are also the ones yelling to never buy new?
How many will run out and trade in their current MY for a new one or just say "nope not a big enough change"?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

After all the ‘renderings’, ‘concepts’, and other silly cartoons of the supposed next-gen model, it’s nice to see a car actually driving around under its own power. It seems to make it much more likely that there really will be a next-gen car. Which, past comments by Toyota/Subaru notwithstanding, was far from certain in the new world order of a burgeoning global financial crisis in the face of an unrelenting pandemic.

The biggest question still remains – what’s under the hood? Consensus is that it’ll be a 2.4 engine. But will it be naturally aspirated (with around 217 hp), or turbocharged (with 260 hp)? The easy, cheap, safe, and conservative way to go would be naturally aspirated. The bold path that would warm the cockles of my heart and everyone else's (and there's nothing like hot cockles) would be to go turbo, and finally give the car what everyone has been pleading for since its launch – in the words of the inimitable Jeremy Clarkson, more powah!

But would a turbocharged BRZ/86 threaten the 4 cylinder Supra? Who would pay so much more for an automatic only BMW Z4 in drag if they could get comparable power (and maybe better performance?) with a holy grail manual transmission, for less money? I would be one of the first in line for a next-gen car IF it was turbocharged and had a manual transmission, and certainly hope this is what Toyota/Subaru will do. But Toyota is a highly financially driven company. I suspect they won’t do something if they think it may jeopardize Supra sales.

Now that the design is clarified, let the speculation and rumor mongering begin on turbo vs naturally aspirated.

They have been very clear in all official statements that they have zero interest in doing a turbo 86. None, nada, nope.
Odds are that if for some reason they did decide to go turbo then like the Supra it would be probably auto only. They know people want a MT Supra but didn't offer that up so why would they do so in their entry level car?
There will be no sub $40K supercar being built.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If they want to sell these things they have to do more.
Did everybody with a 13 to 16 run out and buy a 17? No, even though there were improvements.
Will the people that didn't by the 13 to 20s for whatever reason all of a sudden be swayed by 12 more HP and some changed lights and slightly different body lines? No, in fact those people will probably slam the car even more because it still isn't a $20,000 supercar. The video above is a great example of what we can expect to see.
Will there be a handful of people like you that would be happy with a minor change and buy them? Yes, but that is not enough market to carry on production.
Beyond a small group here on on social media there just will be no excitement attached to the release of this car. The general buying public will still remain ignorant that it even exists and no new market will open.

I agree the platform is good as is and put my money where my mouth is and bought a second new one but there just are not enough that will do that to keep the model viable. The initial build/sales rate of these was high and then slowly tapered off to next to nothing over the 8 years it has been around. Toyota knows there is a limited market for these and don't expect to sell a pile anyway so the just sort of gave up. One fact we do know from a reliable source is that not one member of the original design team worked on this "second gen". They threw the B Team at it and I am willing to bet that the final version reflects that.

All points I agree with but I still can't talk shit about Toyota here. The 86 project was never meant to be a car for the masses, it was only meant to help their brand image and getting enthusiasts to talk about Toyota again with those around them. All my local Toyota dealers have a 86 and Supra right at the entrance. My love for my twin influenced my ex-wife to get a new Corolla and my buddy from college got a new tC soon after I got my first twin. How does Toyota quantify that? I'm sure you remember some of the marketing material they had early on. If sales were hugely important, I don't think the twins would have been created to begin with.

Who really knows why they need to continue with the platform but Toyota and Tesla were pretty much the only automakers that made money through covid so it seems like they are in a position to happily continue funding the 86 dream in the same vein as they started.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

IF they listened to the customer you end up with something like this:

If there is a universal consensus of something (design, UI, performance attribute, etc) among the masses, then it warrants attention. If not, its just a bunch of loudmouth people wanting something that someone else doesnt want for reasons.

Lol

Hasn't most 86 reviews asked for a little juice since day one? Again, brings me back to one of my other post. No one asked Toyota for a 4 banger Zupra. Hence why both the sale and projection rate is so low. Imo, it would make more sense to do a turbo 86 instead. Cheaper, lighter, and probably sell a hell lot more. Sales of the 86 are already at an all time low. I don't think a few reskin panels and 17hp increase will help all that much. All I'm saying is what's wrong with adding a second choice?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by HKz

All points I agree with but I still can't talk shit about Toyota here. The 86 project was never meant to be a car for the masses, it was only meant to help their brand image and getting enthusiasts to talk about Toyota again with those around them. All my local Toyota dealers have a 86 and Supra right at the entrance. My love for my twin influenced my ex-wife to get a new Corolla and my buddy from college got a new tC soon after I got my first twin. How does Toyota quantify that? I'm sure you remember some of the marketing material they had early on. If sales were hugely important, I don't think the twins would have been created to begin with.

Who really knows why they need to continue with the platform but Toyota and Tesla were pretty much the only automakers that made money through covid so it seems like they are in a position to happily continue funding the 86 dream in the same vein as they started.

We are debating on the same side. I repeat that I understand why the car exists and am personally not interested in bigger and better. This does not change the fact that there needs to be enough of us that feel that way for them to continue to make it. If they have already saturated the market with slightly improved cars there just may not be enough people buying it to keep it going. They may not even care if they keep it going though. The first versions were made to fill a void and they did that very very well. The hope is that they didn't fill the void so well that there is no room left for more. If the "next gen" does not attract new buyers then it will be the last.

[Joveen]

It will not have a turbocharged engine. I can bet on that. You have 3 people who love this platform. Turbo heads, guys that lover superchargers and the NA guys.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Look at the how the supra's rear trunk is designed (with a little bit of CHR taillight sticking out) I think this is kind of following that. It looks a bit poofy to try to hide the slope on the trunk lid.

I see what you mean. Just hope the GR86 tail is not as pronounced as the Supra's.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They have been very clear in all official statements that they have zero interest in doing a turbo 86. None, nada, nope.
Odds are that if for some reason they did decide to go turbo then like the Supra it would be probably auto only. They know people want a MT Supra but didn't offer that up so why would they do so in their entry level car?
There will be no sub $40K supercar being built.

Unfortunately, you're probably right. Despite Car & Driver and others talking about a 2.4 turbo, it most likely won't happen.

I think the simple reason there's no manual in the Supra is because BMW didn't build one. No offense to any Supra owners, but the car is essentially a reskinned BMW Z4. BMW didn't offer a manual in the car, and despite Toyota being the largest car company in the world, they didn't see a sufficiently attractive business case for them to spend their own money to create a MT for the car.

There still just might be a $40k-ish supercar(ish) being built (long odds), but if it happens, it would be the Nissan 400ZX.

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Lol

Hasn't most 86 reviews asked for a little juice since day one? Again, brings me back to one of my other post. No one asked Toyota for a 4 banger Zupra. Hence why both the sale and projection rate is so low. Imo, it would make more sense to do a turbo 86 instead. Cheaper, lighter, and probably sell a hell lot more. Sales of the 86 are already at an all time low. I don't think a few reskin panels and 17hp increase will help all that much. All I'm saying is what's wrong with adding a second choice?

You have a special kind of logic. "Everyone wants a turbo 4," they give you one in the supra and now it's "but that's the wrong car wahhh" the 86 was never designed for a turbo so it didn't and won't get one. Toyota did listen and gave the complainers the options they wanted in the 86 in the supra (at the market price a turbo 86 would cost) but no it's still wrong and "no one wanted it." The supra literally is the 2nd choice.....

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

There still just might be a $40k-ish supercar(ish) being built (long odds), but if it happens, it would be the Nissan 400ZX.

Lol, not a chance. That car is going to be a bigger let down then the Supra, no new tech and a 25 yrd old chassis. That looks like more of a reskin then then 2nd gen 86.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

Unfortunately, you're probably right. Despite Car & Driver and others talking about a 2.4 turbo, it most likely won't happen.

I think the simple reason there's no manual in the Supra is because BMW didn't build one. No offense to any Supra owners, but the car is essentially a reskinned BMW Z4. BMW didn't offer a manual in the car, and despite Toyota being the largest car company in the world, they didn't see a sufficiently attractive business case for them to spend their own money to create a MT for the car.

There still just might be a $40k-ish supercar(ish) being built (long odds), but if it happens, it would be the Nissan 400ZX.

of course, the car is made mostly by BMW. If BMW doesnt offer it, the Toyota wont have it.

Now the Z4 in absolute base spec (the 197hp version) that's in Europe and Japan has a stick option. Unless they bring that configuration here theres no stick. And i dont think they'll bring that here because "its too close to the 86 power level" or it'll be deemed too weak and pathetic for this market.

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by Vides990

You have a special kind of logic. "Everyone wants a turbo 4," they give you one in the supra and now it's "but that's the wrong car wahhh" the 86 was never designed for a turbo so it didn't and won't get one. Toyota did listen and gave the complainers the options they wanted in the 86 in the supra (at the market price a turbo 86 would cost) but no it's still wrong and "no one wanted it." The supra literally is the 2nd choice.....

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I buy japanese cars for a reason. And that reason isn't "european reliability".

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by soundman98

yeah, this is only a recent development... history is circular. which is exactly why all these recent calls for striking things from history class is such a terrible concept...

Those who wish to erase history are the ones to fall in the future