Video: Toyota GR86 SPIED for the First Time!

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by soundman98

that was never, ever the point of the car.. turbo ain't happening.

You don't say. What I was trying to get at is the classic case of said automaker not listening to the customer.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The 86 is a niche car with a very narrow target market. If they want to sell to the current owners they need to give them something far better than the current. If they want to open up the market they have to make it radically different than what we have simce most of the world doesn't even know it exists. If the rumours are even remotely true (they are still just rumours no matter how much some believe everything the internet tells them) then this "next gen" does neither of these things so who are they exactly targeting?

My opinion is that this "next gen" is simply a lazy and cheap appeasement version to say they did SOMETHING for the fanbois. The real next gen will come out for the 2025 zero emissions goals and will not appeal to anybody here.

why does the 86 need to please those folks that didn't like it the first go around? the 86 and Supra are clearly not money making projects for toyota, they only exist for brand awareness and perception, hard to quantify that.. They could have been like Nissan with how long they've held onto the 370z and R35 without many significant changes.

The platform is already great..if they want to give us an incrementally updated version retaining the same philosophy and chassis, what is wrong with that? I would rather have a NA > NB-esque progression than say NB > NC (not saying NCs were bad in any way). Since the Supra ain't getting a stick, I would happily get this updated 86.

[NorthernDriver]

Originally Posted by HKz

the 86 and Supra are clearly not money making projects for toyota, they only exist for brand awareness and perception, hard to quantify that.. .

I don't agree. They would not be selling these cars if they did not make money on them. No one is looking at an 86 and then buying a Camry.

Do they print money like the corolla/rav4/camry? No.
Do they make money? Yes.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by NorthernDriver

I don't agree. They would not be selling these cars if they did not make money on them. No one is looking at an 86 and then buying a Camry.

Do they print money like the corolla/rav4/camry? No.
Do they make money? Yes.

I didn't say they were making nothing off them, but it would be silly to think they make enough to even be noticed by shareholders. Come on, it still took them 3 years to sell 100,000 $30 K twins compared to say the yearly 300,000+ RAV4s with many configurations that go beyond $40 K...how much money do you really think is on the table? I bet there are plenty of internal Toyota folks that believe the money they are sending to Subaru to fund these 86s would be better spent elsewhere..

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

You don't say. What I was trying to get at is the classic case of said automaker not listening to the customer.

I’m actually ok with that. Have you seen the majority of owners of these cars on social media? Lol

They’re pretty f*cking stupid

If they listened to the average consumer, it would be 1” lower with 19” wheels, federal tires, an SBD turbo, an extra 100lbs of sound deadening/stereo equipment, and a pop/bang tune from the factory.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by NorthernDriver

I don't agree. They would not be selling these cars if they did not make money on them.

It is brand image. Scion failed and Toyota's competitors are becoming seen as "sporty". You get nowhere in business with sterile product. If a Civic is advertised as exciting and looks exciting,and you have no attachment to a brand, why buy a Corolla? The Corolla has a well earned lack of reputation. It exists, it functions and lasts. It doesn't bring joy or excitement, it doesn't promise that your kids will be successful and drive one after college, all it says is "if YOU buy one, it'll be around after you're dead"

It's not that they earn nothing per sale with the 86, but they're definitely not willing to hire even one more full time employee over it.
Certainly Subaru doesn't gain much here either, but the car serves a minute purpose for each brand and so long as it continues to serve that purpose, it will be a thing.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Another youtuber (garbage).. but watching it he has some comparison where the current car also has that slight weld sharp a-pillar. I guess its just the angle. Makes me rethink if the camo car actually has different a-pillars. We need better pics!

most if not all the hard points, including the A pillar itself, look the exact same to me but the mystery is how they blended the window line from the door into the front fender + hood. seems like they lowered the top height of the fender to be flush with the bottom of the side window instead of starting above it.

[Sosa]

Of all the special editions, facelifts, and model (BRZ/FR-S/86) options, I am beyond satisfied with my '15 FR-S... Although I wish the Monogram was available in Firestorm in my area, oh well.

On topic, these are my favorites for a potential gen 2:

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I’m actually ok with that. Have you seen the majority of owners of these cars on social media? Lol

They’re pretty f*cking stupid

If they listened to the average consumer, it would be 1” lower with 19” wheels, federal tires, an SBD turbo, an extra 100lbs of sound deadening/stereo equipment, and a pop/bang tune from the factory.

Let me ask you what sound more attractive. Hypothetically speaking of course. A $35k turbo 86 or a $43k overweight auto only Zupra? I'm not saying Toyota should put 10 different drivetrains into one model like the Germans, but a second option would be nice.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Let me ask you what sound more attractive. Hypothetically speaking of course. A $35k turbo 86 or a $43k overweight auto only Zupra? I'm not saying Toyota should put 10 different drivetrains into one model like the Germans, but a second option would be nice.

C. Neither. Kill the car off for good so my car can appreciate in 20yrs by $100

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

C. Neither. Kill the car off for good so my car can appreciate in 20yrs by $100

When I see an non-repairable A80 at Copart or IAAI I tell my friends my resale just went up by a buck. :p

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by HKz

why does the 86 need to please those folks that didn't like it the first go around? the 86 and Supra are clearly not money making projects for toyota, they only exist for brand awareness and perception, hard to quantify that.. They could have been like Nissan with how long they've held onto the 370z and R35 without many significant changes.

The platform is already great..if they want to give us an incrementally updated version retaining the same philosophy and chassis, what is wrong with that? I would rather have a NA > NB-esque progression than say NB > NC (not saying NCs were bad in any way). Since the Supra ain't getting a stick, I would happily get this updated 86.

If they want to sell these things they have to do more.
Did everybody with a 13 to 16 run out and buy a 17? No, even though there were improvements.
Will the people that didn't by the 13 to 20s for whatever reason all of a sudden be swayed by 12 more HP and some changed lights and slightly different body lines? No, in fact those people will probably slam the car even more because it still isn't a $20,000 supercar. The video above is a great example of what we can expect to see.
Will there be a handful of people like you that would be happy with a minor change and buy them? Yes, but that is not enough market to carry on production.
Beyond a small group here on on social media there just will be no excitement attached to the release of this car. The general buying public will still remain ignorant that it even exists and no new market will open.

I agree the platform is good as is and put my money where my mouth is and bought a second new one but there just are not enough that will do that to keep the model viable. The initial build/sales rate of these was high and then slowly tapered off to next to nothing over the 8 years it has been around. Toyota knows there is a limited market for these and don't expect to sell a pile anyway so the just sort of gave up. One fact we do know from a reliable source is that not one member of the original design team worked on this "second gen". They threw the B Team at it and I am willing to bet that the final version reflects that.

[why?]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

You don't say. What I was trying to get at is the classic case of said automaker not listening to the customer.

The "customer" you are talking about was not going to buy the car no matter what Toyota did. This car had a very simple purpose that almost all of those "customers" ignored and have no interest in. Those "customers" would be better off looking at a Mustang or Camaro and ignoring the twins.

Originally Posted by NorthernDriver

I don't agree. They would not be selling these cars if they did not make money on them. No one is looking at an 86 and then buying a Camry.
Do they print money like the corolla/rav4/camry? No.
Do they make money? Yes.

That's not true. Carmakers sell cars at a slight loss or break even point all the time. Odds are they make a statistically unimportant amount off of selling these cars.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If they want to sell these things they have to do more.
Did everybody with a 13 to 16 run out and buy a 17? No, even though there were improvements.
Will the people that didn't by the 13 to 20s for whatever reason all of a sudden be swayed by 12 more HP and some changed lights and slightly different body lines? No, in fact those people will probably slam the car even more because it still isn't a $20,000 supercar. The video above is a great example of what we can expect to see.
Will there be a handful of people like you that would be happy with a minor change and buy them? Yes, but that is not enough market to carry on production.
Beyond a small group here on on social media there just will be no excitement attached to the release of this car. The general buying public will still remain ignorant that it even exists and no new market will open.

I agree the platform is good as is and put my money where my mouth is and bought a second new one but there just are not enough that will do that to keep the model viable. The initial build/sales rate of these was high and then slowly tapered off to next to nothing over the 8 years it has been around. Toyota knows there is a limited market for these and don't expect to sell a pile anyway so the just sort of gave up. One fact we do know from a reliable source is that not one member of the original design team worked on this "second gen". They threw the B Team at it and I am willing to bet that the final version reflects that.

They could make it the greatest handling car in the history of the planet but with only 217 hp everyone is still going to not like it. If any of what has come out is even remotely true and not just marketing, than the owner will keep it going just to have it in the lineup. I have heard some people say the new Corolla actually handles reasonably. If so it could be a nice sign Toyota is serious to change their reputation.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by why?

The "customer" you are talking about was not going to buy the car no matter what Toyota did. This car had a very simple purpose that almost all of those "customers" ignored and have no interest in. Those "customers" would be better off looking at a Mustang or Camaro and ignoring the twins.



That's not true. Carmakers sell cars at a slight loss or break even point all the time. Odds are they make a statistically unimportant amount off of selling these cars.






They could make it the greatest handling car in the history of the planet but with only 217 hp everyone is still going to not like it. If any of what has come out is even remotely true and not just marketing, than the owner will keep it going just to have it in the lineup. I have heard some people say the new Corolla actually handles reasonably. If so it could be a nice sign Toyota is serious to change their reputation.

Yes! That is why, if they really wanted to sell more, they would have had to make huge changes. The minor changes just won't satisfy the masses.


The average manufacturer profit on cars is 4 to 5%. So they "make" about $1,000. Toyota actually pays Subaru for the cars so they make even less of a profit. Cars make money in huge volumes. These do not sell in those volumes so make very little, if any profit. Toyota's annual toilet paper costs are probably several thousand times what they make on these cars.


I think that people have been misunderstanding my point of view on why I do not believe this is a "second gen". I do NOT want huge changes and would be very happy if they just stuck to little things for 5 more years until I need another. Unfortunately Toyota does not care what I want. If they don't sell enough they may not last that long in any form. As far keeping it in the line up goes they pushed the current version as "designed with passion" and it shows. I am afraid that the new facelift is going to be more of a case of "Designed as cheap as possible because even though we don't give a shit we have a contract to build these things for three more years".