|
Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
04-30-2013, 09:43 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: GTS 86
Location: Australia
Posts: 989
Thanks: 873
Thanked 475 Times in 272 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
4-2-1 vs 4-1 headers
Which one is better?
Who makes the 4-2-1 and who makes the 4-1? (UEL and EL regardless) Any thoughts? I am in the process of deciding to buy a header but not sure which one is better, and why! "Just because i have it and sounds awesome" type responses won't cut it |
04-30-2013, 09:51 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: Sterling BRZ Ltd
Location: New England
Posts: 1,702
Thanks: 403
Thanked 1,389 Times in 671 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
As a generalization, usually the 4-2-1 helps mid range, 4-1 helps higher up. That being said it seems 4-1 is more common so far but not all 4-1 collectors are created equal.
__________________
|
The Following User Says Thank You to mrk1 For This Useful Post: | Sherb (04-26-2016) |
04-30-2013, 10:06 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: FR-S 6MT Ultramarine (BeeDrill)
Location: London, Canada
Posts: 238
Thanks: 104
Thanked 56 Times in 38 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
From what I can recall the Nameless header is the only 4-2-1 long tube header while the P&L and FA20Club are 4-1 long tube headers. I believe most of the rest are not long and don't seem to perform quite as well. That's just what I've seen in general browsing around. There may be exceptions to this.
__________________
2013 Scion FR-S - Ultramarine 6MT
|
The Following User Says Thank You to A5D5TRYR For This Useful Post: | Hawk77FT (04-30-2013) |
04-30-2013, 10:29 PM | #4 |
Red wine
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: Subaru BRZ(R.I.P)
Location: Denied
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 1,268
Thanked 342 Times in 240 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
For a DD, I am leaning more towards the 4-2-1 headers, my car will not be seeing redline everyday like a race car would so the gains a 4-1 header gives me will just be wasted. After seeing the Nameless dyno, I am convinced that the way I drive and the mid-rpm my car sees daily will benefit from the 4-2-1 headers whilst benefiting the top end better than a stock header.
So do what works for you, because what works for me way not work for you.
__________________
|
04-30-2013, 10:35 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 86 (FR-S)
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 643
Thanks: 460
Thanked 214 Times in 148 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
The P&L header is trumping the 4-1 theory by both making a bigger top end and at the same time eliminating the torque dip. Pretty badass and if I were to decide to stay NA that's what I'd buy.
|
04-30-2013, 10:36 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: 2013 Raven Black FRS
Location: Phx AZ
Posts: 601
Thanks: 56
Thanked 680 Times in 258 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Jesse@JDLAutodesign For This Useful Post: | Hawk77FT (05-01-2013) |
05-01-2013, 03:25 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: GTS 86
Location: Australia
Posts: 989
Thanks: 873
Thanked 475 Times in 272 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Where can I get the P&L or Nameless headers from?
|
05-01-2013, 07:59 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: Subaru BRZ Limited 6MT
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 2,432
Thanks: 712
Thanked 954 Times in 545 Posts
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I'd consider the Nameless, P&L, and FA20Club all long-tube designs. I'm running the FA20Club header and it added plenty of low-mid range torque. I'm hitting the dyno on Saturday.
__________________
Innovate Supercharged Black Limited BRZ 6-Speed MT(Build Thread)
2010 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan M6 w/550whp (Build Thread) |
The Following User Says Thank You to swift996 For This Useful Post: | Hawk77FT (05-01-2013) |
05-01-2013, 09:26 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: A Potential Traffic Ticket
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,112
Thanks: 448
Thanked 231 Times in 182 Posts
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Is there a tuning solution for CEL when an aftermarket header is installed?
__________________
|
05-01-2013, 11:04 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: Sterling BRZ Ltd
Location: New England
Posts: 1,702
Thanks: 403
Thanked 1,389 Times in 671 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
HKS is also a 4-2-1, doesnt seem to be to many of them actually around yet
__________________
|
05-01-2013, 11:36 AM | #11 |
That guy
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: Ultramarine mt FR-S
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,370
Thanks: 692
Thanked 1,388 Times in 730 Posts
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
The Nameless isn't available for purchase yet, while you can find a link to the P&L groupbuy in my signature.
__________________
Ultramarine mt FR-S
P&L stage 1 turbo Prime Motoring Flex fuel Jr Tuned 506whp @17psi (e73) |
05-01-2013, 11:41 AM | #12 | |
Hold my beer n watch this
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '14 Fiesta ST / '91 240sx
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 782
Thanks: 214
Thanked 301 Times in 177 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
The nameless definitely is yes. |
|
05-01-2013, 07:46 PM | #13 |
Seņor Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: 86 GT/'74 TA22 Celica/Kangaroo
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,706
Thanks: 1,104
Thanked 764 Times in 478 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
4-2-1 traditionally creates a broader torque band and 4-1 a higher HP but a peakier torque band. However most high level race cars i've seen run X-1 type header (x being the number of cyl) and good race teams say its area under the torque curve that makes a car fast. So i would have to say its more down to the design of the individual header rather than its configuration that matters.
Also why are the P&L and FA20Club headers considered long tube? The runners are shorter than most of the others on the market like the JDL ones for example.
__________________
1974 TA22 Celica
2013 86 GT |
05-01-2013, 08:57 PM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: GTS 86
Location: Australia
Posts: 989
Thanks: 873
Thanked 475 Times in 272 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
4-2-1 Headers As the name implies, the headers start from 4 pipes that merge into 2 pipes and those merge into 1 pipe.For most cars, this design produces more mid range power with the sacrifice of top end power. Mid range power is great for the street since when you drive you usually do not rev your motor close to redline. Instead, you keep the revs somewhere in the middle, usually shifting at 3-6K, and this is where the headers shine. Do note that not all 4-2-1 headers produce more mid range power at the expense of top end. Some high quality headers are able to improve top end as much as they improve the mid range. This is more the exception than the rule as most headers that are 4-2-1 do produce more power in the mid range, so the "seat of the pants" and "butt dyno" make these headers feel stronger since the power band isn't as high in the RPM range. This goes the same for both 4 cylinder and 8 cylinder applications. Since on a V8 the headers are 4 cylinder per side, you would simply have two 4-2-1 headers, one on each side. 4-1 Headers 4-1 headers are designed so that all 4 exhaust pipes merge into one. In most dyno tests, this produces the most top end power since it usually offers the best flow characteristics for the engine at high engine speeds. 4-1 headers usually move the power band up, which makes the bottom of the RPM band feel a bit weak and the "seat of the pants" feel might not be as strong as a 4-2-1 header. However, dyno tests have show that at low RPM there is very little difference in power. The 4-1 headers usually have less back-pressure than the 4-2-1 header and customers have stated their cars seem louder at high RPM with the 4-1 headers. Most headers that are street legal or CARB legal are usually of the 4-2-1 design but there are exceptions. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Headers? | BuBlake | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 30 | 04-22-2014 10:46 AM |
Headers install help!!! | Blackout808 | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 9 | 04-02-2013 05:27 PM |
Anyone put UEL headers on this car yet? | MarkMash | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 118 | 03-29-2013 12:30 PM |
Headers | tdoggy57 | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 10 | 01-13-2013 05:09 AM |
Headers UEL vs EL | Decameron | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 38 | 08-31-2012 12:00 PM |