follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > FT86CLUB Shared Forum > FR-S / BRZ vs....

FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-08-2020, 01:06 AM   #57
Dirty Harry
Senior Member
 
Dirty Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 2013 BRZ Satin White Pearl
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 391
Thanks: 340
Thanked 375 Times in 188 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
I don't think I would even put the FA20 in the same league as the F20C/F22C engines, but again, that's personal opionion.
Lower centre of gravity for the FA20 engine would be one advantage I guess? But yeah from what I’ve read/heard F20C/F22C is the superior motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
5. Fun factor-Now this is certainly subjective, but again, even if the Twins are slightly faster than a S2K when comparing stock to stock, the S2K just feels a lot more fun to drive in stock form. I'm sure a moderately modified Twin would possible change this equation.
The S2K stock to Twin stock, the S2K is quicker, right?

BTW, pretty interesting thread/comparison this one...
Dirty Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 10:51 AM   #58
DarkSunrise
Senior Member
 
DarkSunrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 13 FR-S
Location: USA
Posts: 5,490
Thanks: 1,663
Thanked 3,841 Times in 2,046 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
Ah, gotcha! Anyway it's a good look at what higher rev limit and lower VTEC can do for ya, nearly double the usable rpm range!
Yeah that is impressive. Huge gains over stock from 4000-6000 RPM. My friend mentioned he had been considering lowering the crossover with a tune because he thought the stock powerband was too narrow, but it looks like a test pipe is an important part to really unlocking the midrange.

Some great suggestions here. Thanks (and also to @CSG Mike). Looking forward to seeing how his AP2 does with some upgrades.

Any thoughts on AP2 brakes? They were starting to go towards the end. Simple pad upgrade good enough for canyon runs (and possibly light track usage)?
__________________
Build Page
"I love this car. I think we wimped out when we didn't name it Best Driver's Car." -Randy Pobst on the BRZ
DarkSunrise is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 12:00 PM   #59
mrg666
pessimistic skeptic
 
mrg666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Drives: '14 FR-S Monogram AT JRSC
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,769
Thanks: 1,695
Thanked 1,029 Times in 681 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
Well, I at least was trying to actually give an honest opinion to the OPs original question comparing 2 of the 4 vehicles in this comparison list. I DD both an S2K and an FRS, I put about 50K miles on the former and 30K miles on the latter. Granted, none of this was track time and/or "racing" but IMO the S2K is a much better car all around, especially in terms of engineering. I don't think I would even put the FA20 in the same league as the F20C/F22C engines, but again, that's personal opionion.

If I wanted great fuel economy, I wouldn't be driving a sports car. Plenty of econo-boxes out there that are more practical for DD. At least for now, people can still have some say on what they buy and drive, though as pointed out in many other threads across a vast ocean of car forums, the clock is ticking because of all the regulations that keep getting rammed down everyone's throat. I'd also say newer isn't always better, plenty of examples for that if I wanted to get picky.

It seems like you are wanting to defend your purchase more than add to the thread for someone maybe wanting to see what the pros/cons are of these vehicles that are being compared. To add to why I would choose an S2K over the Twins, let me explain in greater detail:

1. Desirability-These cars aren't being made anymore, there's a limited number available at any given time, the car was a "one off" by Honda at the height of its glory days, and there will probably never be another car like this unless it's some sort of exotic, low production type car (I know "desirability" is somewhat subjective, but the market does have some say in this and there is a reason the S2K is going up in value)

2. Engineering-The car is a marvel of engineering in many ways and is well built. Many examples out there with over 200K on the motors and still going strong, many with FI at power levels twice what it came from the factory.

3. Engine-Goes with #2, you not only get a 9/8K redline from the factory, but an engine with all forged internals (probably why they take to boost with little to no issues).

4. Ease of maintenance-You can really start to appreciate this if you end up having to do any work on your own car. The MY2000-2005 are basically a mechanical car, I don't even have a TPMS system in my 2002. It is refreshing to know that you can do pretty much any job in your own garage with the right tools. Everything is easily accessible on the engine, it took me 5 minutes to change my coil packs when I got the car. Add another 10 to do the sparks plugs, but since I had a shop the only works on Hondas/Acuras do my valve adjustment/AP2 retainers upgrade when I got the car, I had them do the spark plugs while there were working on the car. (time will tell how well the FA20 holds up, but ease of maintenance is certainly not a strong point for this engine layout and engine bay)

5. Fun factor-Now this is certainly subjective, but again, even if the Twins are slightly faster than a S2K when comparing stock to stock, the S2K just feels a lot more fun to drive in stock form. I'm sure a moderately modified Twin would possible change this equation.

While this is certainly not everything, it's the major points for me when comparing these two/three vehicles. I don't dislike the Twins at all and from what I have been told by the guys at CSG, the 2017+ cars had some major changes to suspension that made these cars better. I even stated I have considered owning another one, because it would be a great track car and easily replaced if I completely destroyed it, whereas smashing an S2K isn't something I want to experience because of how much these cars are starting to command for a decent example.

And for the record, I don't hate the FA20. I think it's a "good" engine for what it is. I just don't think it's "great" and I feel this was the one major weakness of the design and I'm not even saying it needed "moar powah" it just seemed underwhelming in stock form. Certainly modifications can change this equation but a) that costs money b) it voids your warranty if you have a newer car and not a good idea if you rely on it for your DD and c) when I bought my FRS, I was one of the first so this engine was an unknown commodity so I didn't want to risk it at the time. Certainly this isn't true anymore because we now know what it's strengths and weaknesses are.

To sum up, I know you saw this post on the GR86 thread, but I think it is a good summation of how I feel about the FA20 when comparing it to a F20C/F22C or just about any other Honda/Toyota engine:

Originally Posted by ichitaka05 View Post
2 things to note here & this isn't pin pointing at you only, but to everyone who thinking about FA24 is a solution.
1. I've talked with few engineers from Toyota side and they're still baffled on why Subaru to making the way they're making their engine. Engine is so unbalanced. Even in US, engine shops have seen huge difference in weight in each cylinders. Hell, if Honda engineers see it, they'll laugh at how bad it is. Even GR engineers stated that, if they fully build engine FA20 the way Toyota build it, it can easily push 220 safely and proven that w 86GRMN. But Subaru doesn't not want to change the way they build the engine (for cost cutting or whatever) they'll make hit or miss engine aka ticking bomb. It took long time to Tada-san tell them how to build this FA engine. They didn't want to hear what he gotta say, but had to listen. Now, they use that knowledge to make FA20DIT, which I would say damn good engine. BUT that information was giving from Toyota side, so you can take it as a grain of salt... I feel like history of EJ engine pretty much proven this. BUT that can be said the same w Toyota US dealership mech too, so Toyota can't really say much lol
2. List stock Subaru 4 cylinder boxer engine that's over 2L that have higher rpm than FA20 or EJ20. I'll wait. Cuz there aren't any. Even the famous 22B (EJ22) can't rev higher than EJ20. Look at JDM STI vs USDM STI redline. Yeah... it's different for sure, cuz JDM uses EJ207 vs USDM uses EJ257. That 0.5L make HUGE difference. So IDK why ppl are so hyped about FA24 gonna be equipped in next gen. Technically, FA24 was build for heavy car aka having ton of power low end w no power high end. Of course, that can be changed, but Subaru gonna change THAT much difference? Hm... questionable. Subaru's boxer engine already dying at high end from NA form adding extra 0.4L with extra weight on the car is like making fat person sprint. Don't get me wrong, you'll feel a lot more tq than current 86, but what do you get at the high end? Nothing. Oh wait, after tq dip, you got +-1k rpm til it'll hit the redline. Oh~ you thought tq dip was only FA thing? FA20 causes more tq dip than other Subaru boxer engine due to switch of DI to PI, but tq dip is in EVERY Subaru boxer engine. Recently Subaru is hiding it well w turbo spooling early.

With that said, take my info as a grain of salt. I don't have ALL the info of next gen. All I can say is adding power or spec on the paper isn't always the answer. This car, 86/BRZ was the example of that. Now, greedy people want a bit of juice from this car is making this car isn't what made this car is. Not everything is bad from next gen (I've heard few good infos), but we can only hope and guestimate.
Do you seriously think, I would sit and read all this rave about your S2K? I can't but congrats to you and have fun.
mrg666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 07:37 PM   #60
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 13,629
Thanks: 8,534
Thanked 13,119 Times in 6,344 Posts
Mentioned: 924 Post(s)
Tagged: 13 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
Well, I at least was trying to actually give an honest opinion to the OPs original question comparing 2 of the 4 vehicles in this comparison list. I DD both an S2K and an FRS, I put about 50K miles on the former and 30K miles on the latter. Granted, none of this was track time and/or "racing" but IMO the S2K is a much better car all around, especially in terms of engineering. I don't think I would even put the FA20 in the same league as the F20C/F22C engines, but again, that's personal opionion.

If I wanted great fuel economy, I wouldn't be driving a sports car. Plenty of econo-boxes out there that are more practical for DD. At least for now, people can still have some say on what they buy and drive, though as pointed out in many other threads across a vast ocean of car forums, the clock is ticking because of all the regulations that keep getting rammed down everyone's throat. I'd also say newer isn't always better, plenty of examples for that if I wanted to get picky.

It seems like you are wanting to defend your purchase more than add to the thread for someone maybe wanting to see what the pros/cons are of these vehicles that are being compared. To add to why I would choose an S2K over the Twins, let me explain in greater detail:

1. Desirability-These cars aren't being made anymore, there's a limited number available at any given time, the car was a "one off" by Honda at the height of its glory days, and there will probably never be another car like this unless it's some sort of exotic, low production type car (I know "desirability" is somewhat subjective, but the market does have some say in this and there is a reason the S2K is going up in value)

2. Engineering-The car is a marvel of engineering in many ways and is well built. Many examples out there with over 200K on the motors and still going strong, many with FI at power levels twice what it came from the factory.

3. Engine-Goes with #2, you not only get a 9/8K redline from the factory, but an engine with all forged internals (probably why they take to boost with little to no issues).

4. Ease of maintenance-You can really start to appreciate this if you end up having to do any work on your own car. The MY2000-2005 are basically a mechanical car, I don't even have a TPMS system in my 2002. It is refreshing to know that you can do pretty much any job in your own garage with the right tools. Everything is easily accessible on the engine, it took me 5 minutes to change my coil packs when I got the car. Add another 10 to do the sparks plugs, but since I had a shop the only works on Hondas/Acuras do my valve adjustment/AP2 retainers upgrade when I got the car, I had them do the spark plugs while there were working on the car. (time will tell how well the FA20 holds up, but ease of maintenance is certainly not a strong point for this engine layout and engine bay)

5. Fun factor-Now this is certainly subjective, but again, even if the Twins are slightly faster than a S2K when comparing stock to stock, the S2K just feels a lot more fun to drive in stock form. I'm sure a moderately modified Twin would possible change this equation.

While this is certainly not everything, it's the major points for me when comparing these two/three vehicles. I don't dislike the Twins at all and from what I have been told by the guys at CSG, the 2017+ cars had some major changes to suspension that made these cars better. I even stated I have considered owning another one, because it would be a great track car and easily replaced if I completely destroyed it, whereas smashing an S2K isn't something I want to experience because of how much these cars are starting to command for a decent example.

And for the record, I don't hate the FA20. I think it's a "good" engine for what it is. I just don't think it's "great" and I feel this was the one major weakness of the design and I'm not even saying it needed "moar powah" it just seemed underwhelming in stock form. Certainly modifications can change this equation but a) that costs money b) it voids your warranty if you have a newer car and not a good idea if you rely on it for your DD and c) when I bought my FRS, I was one of the first so this engine was an unknown commodity so I didn't want to risk it at the time. Certainly this isn't true anymore because we now know what it's strengths and weaknesses are.

To sum up, I know you saw this post on the GR86 thread, but I think it is a good summation of how I feel about the FA20 when comparing it to a F20C/F22C or just about any other Honda/Toyota engine:

Originally Posted by ichitaka05 View Post
2 things to note here & this isn't pin pointing at you only, but to everyone who thinking about FA24 is a solution.
1. I've talked with few engineers from Toyota side and they're still baffled on why Subaru to making the way they're making their engine. Engine is so unbalanced. Even in US, engine shops have seen huge difference in weight in each cylinders. Hell, if Honda engineers see it, they'll laugh at how bad it is. Even GR engineers stated that, if they fully build engine FA20 the way Toyota build it, it can easily push 220 safely and proven that w 86GRMN. But Subaru doesn't not want to change the way they build the engine (for cost cutting or whatever) they'll make hit or miss engine aka ticking bomb. It took long time to Tada-san tell them how to build this FA engine. They didn't want to hear what he gotta say, but had to listen. Now, they use that knowledge to make FA20DIT, which I would say damn good engine. BUT that information was giving from Toyota side, so you can take it as a grain of salt... I feel like history of EJ engine pretty much proven this. BUT that can be said the same w Toyota US dealership mech too, so Toyota can't really say much lol
2. List stock Subaru 4 cylinder boxer engine that's over 2L that have higher rpm than FA20 or EJ20. I'll wait. Cuz there aren't any. Even the famous 22B (EJ22) can't rev higher than EJ20. Look at JDM STI vs USDM STI redline. Yeah... it's different for sure, cuz JDM uses EJ207 vs USDM uses EJ257. That 0.5L make HUGE difference. So IDK why ppl are so hyped about FA24 gonna be equipped in next gen. Technically, FA24 was build for heavy car aka having ton of power low end w no power high end. Of course, that can be changed, but Subaru gonna change THAT much difference? Hm... questionable. Subaru's boxer engine already dying at high end from NA form adding extra 0.4L with extra weight on the car is like making fat person sprint. Don't get me wrong, you'll feel a lot more tq than current 86, but what do you get at the high end? Nothing. Oh wait, after tq dip, you got +-1k rpm til it'll hit the redline. Oh~ you thought tq dip was only FA thing? FA20 causes more tq dip than other Subaru boxer engine due to switch of DI to PI, but tq dip is in EVERY Subaru boxer engine. Recently Subaru is hiding it well w turbo spooling early.

With that said, take my info as a grain of salt. I don't have ALL the info of next gen. All I can say is adding power or spec on the paper isn't always the answer. This car, 86/BRZ was the example of that. Now, greedy people want a bit of juice from this car is making this car isn't what made this car is. Not everything is bad from next gen (I've heard few good infos), but we can only hope and guestimate.
TL;DR the 86 was built to a price point roughly half that of the s2k.

Imagine if a 50k "pure" sports car was built today for the s2k's production numbers, with no regard for actual performance. It wouldn't sell, but it would be a badass car.

Some counterpoints.

The F2xC's emissions are a few orders of magnitude higher than the FA20. A lot of Honda guys will point out that Honda made 200hp/2L engines way earlier than the FA20, but if you compare even the more modern K20 to the FA20, the K20's emissions are over an order of magnitude higher, and takes 1000 more RPMs to make the same peak power.

While the FA20 is very budget oriented, it's got quite a few impressive points to it as well.

You may not have been around for the original S2000 owners but I was. Back then, 280whp was considered the maximums safe boosted power for the F2xC. Then that number bumped to 300. Then 320. Then 360. As development happens, the safe numbers go up, and it took 20 years to get to where we are now in F2xC development.

Case in point, I have an incredible amount of miles and hard driving hours on my 350whp FA20. Still on the original engine. Bought a spare years ago, and it's still sitting.


Each of the 3 mentioned motors all have strengths and weaknesses, but for pure satisfaction, the F2xC wins, hands down.


Disclosure:

I own both a F2xC powered car, as well as a K20 powered car, in addition to my turbo BRZ.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
53Driver (05-08-2020), Ohio Enthusiast (05-08-2020)
Old 05-08-2020, 07:38 PM   #61
53Driver
T64-416Ax3=13,140shp
 
53Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2002 AP1 and 2015 F-150 EB (DD)
Location: NWA
Posts: 878
Thanks: 783
Thanked 372 Times in 221 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
Lower centre of gravity for the FA20 engine would be one advantage I guess? But yeah from what Iíve read/heard F20C/F22C is the superior motor.



The S2K stock to Twin stock, the S2K is quicker, right?

BTW, pretty interesting thread/comparison this one...
Well, lots of variables in what makes something "faster/quicker" correct? If you look at the specs on paper, stock vs stock, the S2K is a slight bit faster in a straight line under acceleration, but not surprising considering its higher redline, 20% power advantage, and excellent gearbox.

With that being said, from my understanding (again, I have never tracked either cars), the Twins are slightly faster around a circuit because of the lower CG (as you already mentioned) and better aero design of the Twins. Of course, a long track may change this equation and of course, driver skill.

Both are very competent track performers, especially if you do the correct mods to the cars. Personally, I would probably go with the Twins for a track car because it costs a lot more money to increase the performance of the S2K, partly because it's already so well engineered from Honda.

If I was choosing one to be a DD, again I would go with the Twins because they have a more modern cabin that is roomier and more comfortable for long trips/DD. This is an important point for someone who is also over 6' and/or 200 lbs., the S2K becomes almost impossible for people bigger than this to drive comfortably and/or fit in if they are trying to add track gear.

So you can see I am not necessarily biased towards the Honda on these matters. I think the S2K is a very niche car and one that will certainly make you happy. It really is suited to be a "weekend warrior" and/or car someone wants to enjoy it for it what it is. The engineering and build quality is second to none. Even though my S2K is 18 years old now, much of the car still feels as solid as it did when new. I have one small rattle from the passenger seat when I drive the car and that's it. Everything still works and nothing is suspect on the car.

I would also add, for anyone looking to buy one, the only mod I would do for any year S2K (just to be safe) is to upgrade the OEM TCT with the Billman250 TCT who's over on S2KI (I'm not affiliated with him). If you have the F20C engine, I would also upgrade the engine oil squirter banjo bolts to the F22C ones (if you are in the NA market). The AP2 F20C engines got this upgrade from Honda starting in 2004 if I recall correctly.
__________________


53Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 07:39 PM   #62
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 13,629
Thanks: 8,534
Thanked 13,119 Times in 6,344 Posts
Mentioned: 924 Post(s)
Tagged: 13 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSunrise View Post
Yeah that is impressive. Huge gains over stock from 4000-6000 RPM. My friend mentioned he had been considering lowering the crossover with a tune because he thought the stock powerband was too narrow, but it looks like a test pipe is an important part to really unlocking the midrange.

Some great suggestions here. Thanks (and also to @CSG Mike). Looking forward to seeing how his AP2 does with some upgrades.

Any thoughts on AP2 brakes? They were starting to go towards the end. Simple pad upgrade good enough for canyon runs (and possibly light track usage)?
CSG also carries a full line of S2k stuff.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 07:58 PM   #63
53Driver
T64-416Ax3=13,140shp
 
53Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2002 AP1 and 2015 F-150 EB (DD)
Location: NWA
Posts: 878
Thanks: 783
Thanked 372 Times in 221 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
TL;DR the 86 was built to a price point roughly half that of the s2k.

Imagine if a 50k "pure" sports car was built today for the s2k's production numbers, with no regard for actual performance. It wouldn't sell, but it would be a badass car.

Some counterpoints.

The F2xC's emissions are a few orders of magnitude higher than the FA20. A lot of Honda guys will point out that Honda made 200hp/2L engines way earlier than the FA20, but if you compare even the more modern K20 to the FA20, the K20's emissions are over an order of magnitude higher, and takes 1000 more RPMs to make the same peak power.

While the FA20 is very budget oriented, it's got quite a few impressive points to it as well.

You may not have been around for the original S2000 owners but I was. Back then, 280whp was considered the maximums safe boosted power for the F2xC. Then that number bumped to 300. Then 320. Then 360. As development happens, the safe numbers go up, and it took 20 years to get to where we are now in F2xC development.

Case in point, I have an incredible amount of miles and hard driving hours on my 350whp FA20. Still on the original engine. Bought a spare years ago, and it's still sitting.


Each of the 3 mentioned motors all have strengths and weaknesses, but for pure satisfaction, the F2xC wins, hands down.


Disclosure:

I own both a F2xC powered car, as well as a K20 powered car, in addition to my turbo BRZ.
Mike, I've been working with your company for sometime now on building my AP1. I also was following the development of this chassis since it was unveiled at the 1996 Tokyo Auto Show (I was in my senior year of college if you want to date me). I bought a 2004 in 2004 and put 50K miles of hard DD on the car, with never any issues other than replacing the rear tires twice and doing oil changes.

I agree with everything you said and if you go back and look at my OP in this thread, I put in a disclaimer about the budget differences between these two chassis. No doubt the Twins are much cheaper because of their intended purpose. Again, I'm okay with that. I was also a first adopter on this chassis, buying a 2013 FRS (look at my forum join date). It too was a DD for 2 years and I put 30K miles on it, again with no issues. If I had kept it, I certainly would have started modding the $hit out it once the warranty had expired but alas, I got married and well, you know how that goes.

I don't dislike the FA20, I even stated earlier that it is a *good* engine, but the layout is certainly not easy to work on for the average person and when the days comes for a replacement head gasket(s) or something similar, it's going to require engine out of chassis for such work. Again, for the serious tuner oriented person, probably not a big deal. Of course, having an aviation background and growing up with a grandfather who could work on anything with an engine, I learned that accessibility is a worthwhile design feature unless other engineering requirements preclude that. It's all give and take. For this car, they engineers prioritized a low center-of-gravity to give it the great handling characteristics that it has. This comes with a price though that people need to consider when comparing cars for possible purchase. That's all I am saying and of course, well, Subaru does Boxer engines so there's that.

The FA20, at least in the first couple of years, didn't evoke a lot of excitement from me but again, that's subjective to some degree. I still bought one though and am still considering another one (though at this point, might be worth waiting to see what happens with the second generation Twins and we know the pandemic is putting a big hit on the auto industry).

You and I are both lucky, we have had both of these cars and gotten a lot of seat time in each. Certainly you are way more experienced on the track than me, that's why I have been working with your company for the past year with purchasing parts to build my S2K into something a lot more than it is from the factory. I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, just trying to provide input for the person who is looking at this thread because they are maybe trying to decide between these different vehicles and their differences are. Not everyone is as fortunate as us to be able to own both and do racecar stuff with them.

One of these, I'll post my build thread up of my S2K, with a detailed listing of what it takes/costs to turn an S2K into a serious track machine. I know you know the answer to that question already. More the reason for someone on a budget to go with the Twins!
__________________


53Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 53Driver For This Useful Post:
CSG Mike (05-08-2020)
Old 05-08-2020, 08:01 PM   #64
53Driver
T64-416Ax3=13,140shp
 
53Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2002 AP1 and 2015 F-150 EB (DD)
Location: NWA
Posts: 878
Thanks: 783
Thanked 372 Times in 221 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
CSG also carries a full line of S2k stuff.
Yeah, go look at my bank statements.
__________________


53Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 08:20 PM   #65
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 13,629
Thanks: 8,534
Thanked 13,119 Times in 6,344 Posts
Mentioned: 924 Post(s)
Tagged: 13 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
Yeah, go look at my bank statements.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 08:21 PM   #66
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 13,629
Thanks: 8,534
Thanked 13,119 Times in 6,344 Posts
Mentioned: 924 Post(s)
Tagged: 13 Thread(s)
I wish honda offered a s2000 refresh program like they do with the NSX.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
53Driver (05-08-2020)
Old 05-08-2020, 08:21 PM   #67
53Driver
T64-416Ax3=13,140shp
 
53Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2002 AP1 and 2015 F-150 EB (DD)
Location: NWA
Posts: 878
Thanks: 783
Thanked 372 Times in 221 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Oh, and to clarify one of my earlier statements, I do see where I said "I dislike the FA20" but that wasn't what I meant to say (starting to sound like a politician). I was trying to say that it wasn't as exciting of an engine I had hoped for. And apparently Toyota agreed somewhat, because based off Ichitaka's comments, Subaru could have done a better job if they had listened to Toyota. Toyota does know a thing or two about building high quality engines. It's a shame they have relied so heavily on other companies of late to produce their sporty cars.

BTW @CSG Mike didn't Toyota/BMW just produce a 50K+ "pure" sports car that is badass? Is it not selling?
__________________


53Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 01:44 AM   #68
DarkSunrise
Senior Member
 
DarkSunrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 13 FR-S
Location: USA
Posts: 5,490
Thanks: 1,663
Thanked 3,841 Times in 2,046 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
CSG also carries a full line of S2k stuff.
Haha yes I saw that. Btw not sure if you saw my ninja edit, but recommended pads for aggressive street/light track use? We faded his pads in the canyons and I'm going to try to bring him out to some future track events so looking for pads that will tolerate a novice level driver.

Personally I'm a fan of carbotech, but never tried their street-oriented pads. Also I don't trust my ft86 knowledge to translate over to the s2k platform.
__________________
Build Page
"I love this car. I think we wimped out when we didn't name it Best Driver's Car." -Randy Pobst on the BRZ
DarkSunrise is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 04:37 AM   #69
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 13,629
Thanks: 8,534
Thanked 13,119 Times in 6,344 Posts
Mentioned: 924 Post(s)
Tagged: 13 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSunrise View Post
Haha yes I saw that. Btw not sure if you saw my ninja edit, but recommended pads for aggressive street/light track use? We faded his pads in the canyons and I'm going to try to bring him out to some future track events so looking for pads that will tolerate a novice level driver.

Personally I'm a fan of carbotech, but never tried their street-oriented pads. Also I don't trust my ft86 knowledge to translate over to the s2k platform.
So here's a point of contention.

You already know how much people resist upgrading brakes, saying novices will be okay, etc etc.

The s2k has more power, more weight, with smaller brakes. Whatever "works" on the 86 needs to be more extreme on the s2k, to also work similarly well.

I wouldn't start anything short of a XP10 with the s2k. You'll need to bed his pads for him to get them silent, but once properly bedded, XP10 and XP12 will be completely silent on the s2k.

XP10 f/r or XP12 f/r.

Or, try the CSG CX1.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
53Driver (05-09-2020)
Old 05-09-2020, 04:46 AM   #70
nikitopo
Senior Member
 
nikitopo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: '12 Forester, '15 BRZ
Location: UK
Posts: 3,399
Thanks: 2,144
Thanked 1,709 Times in 1,123 Posts
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
Oh, and to clarify one of my earlier statements, I do see where I said "I dislike the FA20" but that wasn't what I meant to say (starting to sound like a politician). I was trying to say that it wasn't as exciting of an engine I had hoped for. And apparently Toyota agreed somewhat, because based off Ichitaka's comments, Subaru could have done a better job if they had listened to Toyota. Toyota does know a thing or two about building high quality engines. It's a shame they have relied so heavily on other companies of late to produce their sporty cars.

BTW @CSG Mike didn't Toyota/BMW just produce a 50K+ "pure" sports car that is badass? Is it not selling?
Who said that Toyota is not building their own car? Check the 2021 Toyota GR Yaris.
nikitopo is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mom's Reaction to FRS, S2000 and Miata Dezoris Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 20 11-15-2014 02:22 AM
Any wisdom from IS300 owners? How bout Miata or S2000 owners? Ocean-Grown 86 Member's Car Journals 7 08-22-2014 11:52 AM
Track Video: BRZ Passes worked Miata, unable to be passed by prepped s2000 gmookher FR-S & 86 Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 1 11-06-2012 01:01 PM
FIAT 500 7thgear Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 25 03-18-2012 02:38 AM
Fiat 500 Marrk Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 8 11-28-2011 04:29 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.