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Old 09-21-2017, 09:53 PM   #15
PAT86
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Originally Posted by jvincent View Post
Your pictures aren't showing for me either.

Having been through this myself a couple of years ago, here's my two cents.

1. The most important mod for the track is brake pads/fluid. Whatever else happens you want to be able to stop and melted pads/boiled fluid are no good.

2. Don't make any other performance mods until you have some experience. Ideally get instruction. Other than brakes, I didn't do anything to my car for the first track season. I used up the stock tires learning on the car.

3. The fact that you are over-steering on exit means you still need to learn. See point 2 above. Fat sticky tires will just mask bad driving. The fact that you weren't able to overheat the stock brakes indicates that you still have a long way to go.

4. If you are keeping the engine stock an oil cooler isn't absolutely necessary, but is still a good idea.

Is it showing now?

1.) agree
2.) well given the 3 wheelsets I have no choice but to use the rotas for track and stick with either a 235 square or staggered set up later on.
3.) i'm not sure I understand that since it seems to me it just means I couldn't step as much on the accelerator as I want to on the exits which in our track are mostly hairpins. With regards to the brakes, that's incorrect. I never used the stock ones and already had it modified before track use so I was not braking as slow as you may have imagined.
4.) Yes I had to somewhat compromise. I'm afraid I added another failure part that could potentially cause oil leak in the future from a broken hose or broken oil cooler radiator or something. But no choice since track temps on the engine oil are too hot.

I do agree with the instructor and perhaps I don't need to rush yet on the thicker rear tires until I get more track time and experience.

BUT, the front of the car was too soft on track. lateral forces was more than enough to get the car's outer front to rub the tires consistently. I felt bad for the car. Hence, I may be forced to get the coilovers soon.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:03 PM   #16
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Sounds like you're on the right track with your build. If I were you, I'd get camber adjustment for the front (to stop the front shoulders from wearing so much) and an oil cooler if your oil temps are hot (likely the case in Manila). After that spend your money on seat time (fun time) at the track!

Also one other thing. You'll probably get to the point where PMU HC+800 pads start wearing down quickly at the track. I had that issue and switched to Carbotech XP10 pads and loved them. Might be something to consider if you run into that issue.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:33 AM   #17
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Sounds like you're on the right track with your build. If I were you, I'd get camber adjustment for the front (to stop the front shoulders from wearing so much) and an oil cooler if your oil temps are hot (likely the case in Manila). After that spend your money on seat time (fun time) at the track!

Also one other thing. You'll probably get to the point where PMU HC+800 pads start wearing down quickly at the track. I had that issue and switched to Carbotech XP10 pads and loved them. Might be something to consider if you run into that issue.
Thanks. Pretty good advice there on the carbotech. I looked online and it seems like only the XP12 is available. Are those any good? And just as important, how are they for braking on the streets? Is the noise level tolerable?

I did order a mishimoto non thermostatic (since we're a tropical country) oil cooler.

I also ordered Whiteline kdt926 gearbox bushing and perrin rear shifter bushings. Any experience with them? Is the NVH tolerable and I hope they don't shorten the lifespan of the power train in real world experience?
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Old 09-22-2017, 04:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by PAT86 View Post
Is it showing now?

3.) i'm not sure I understand that since it seems to me it just means I couldn't step as much on the accelerator as I want to on the exits which in our track are mostly hairpins. With regards to the brakes, that's incorrect. I never used the stock ones and already had it modified before track use so I was not braking as slow as you may have imagined.
Yep. Pictures show now.

I thought from your post you hadn't upgraded the brakes yet, so my bad.

My point on the oversteer is that if you are doing it all the time then you are simply getting on the gas too early. That's an experience thing.

This car definitely needs more camber up front, so another good addition is a set of camber bolts up front to max out the camber. After that you either need camber plates or coilovers.
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Old 09-23-2017, 08:47 AM   #19
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I'm just going to add that a staggered wheel setup is probably the single most wasteful and idiotic thing that can be done to these cars. You raise the price of your equipment and eliminate your ability to rotate front and back, and what do you get in return? A vehicle that will push (understeer) more in the corners and more rotating mass to get moving. Unless you are going to re-valve your shocks and adjust your spring rates accordingly, that stuff has no business on a race track, or a car designed for a square setup.

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Old 09-23-2017, 09:10 PM   #20
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Thanks. Pretty good advice there on the carbotech. I looked online and it seems like only the XP12 is available. Are those any good? And just as important, how are they for braking on the streets? Is the noise level tolerable?

I did order a mishimoto non thermostatic (since we're a tropical country) oil cooler.

I also ordered Whiteline kdt926 gearbox bushing and perrin rear shifter bushings. Any experience with them? Is the NVH tolerable and I hope they don't shorten the lifespan of the power train in real world experience?
Yeah the XP12's are supposed to be even better than the 10's on track, but I never got a chance to try them (switched to a BBK). If you're worried about noise though, the 10's squeal moderately on the street. I would expect the 12's would be worse.

No experience on the whiteline and perrin bushings you mentioned, but if you search the forum I'm sure someone has reviewed them.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by PAT86 View Post
3.) i'm not sure I understand that since it seems to me it just means I couldn't step as much on the accelerator as I want to on the exits which in our track are mostly hairpins. With regards to the brakes, that's incorrect. I never used the stock ones and already had it modified before track use so I was not braking as slow as you may have imagined.
Generally speaking with stock coilovers and alignment the car understeers around a skidpad (in other words if you drive in a perfectly round circle and slowly go faster and faster without making a mistake, being perfectly smooth the front end of the car will lose grip first), there is less grip in the front of the car than the rear primarily due to the alignment. If you are getting oversteer it's highly likely that you're not actually maximizing your car's current potential and are making a driving error such as being not smooth enough on the gas pedal or not straightening out the steering wheel soon enough. Likewise if you were experiencing awful horrendous understeer it's likely true that you are over driving the car, especially on corner entry, it's not the car's fault it cannot do what you ask of it. You as a driver need to drive to the car's maximum potential and understand what it is and isn't capable of doing before modifying it to go faster, otherwise there is no guarantee that your money will not be wasted.

Adding camber will improve front grip and improve tire life on track by reducing outer shoulder wear. Stiffening the front will help a bit, but that's not the real problem. This may increase oversteer based on your current driving habits but it's hard to say without being able to see.

Project Mu HC800 pads are not track pads, if you are not overheating them yet then there is more time to be gained in the braking zones (unless your local course is slow for a racetrack). The XP12's will stand up to much more abuse, but they will not make you faster, they will only withstand heat better and more predictably. Use up the Project Mu first and as mentioned by @DarkSunrise the XP12 pads are not going to be very street friendly so you may want to consider having a street pad and a track pad. I had XP10's for my third track day and they were great and are supposed to be a bit more mild than the XP12's but I still could not daily drive them.

But, it's all about having fun, so do whatever seems fun to you
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ineedyourdiddly

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Old 09-24-2017, 04:27 AM   #22
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I am looking forward to own this car indefinitely and I hope to upgrade the car (and its driver as well) making it better than original stock, not really in terms of power but making the car better overall with minimal compromise such as modifications that not only enhances its performance but importantly does so without compromising reliability etc. In fact, any power upgrades might come last.
Don't pay too much attention on haters over here. Some of them will even tell you that the car doesn't need anything, forgeting that it was meant to be an entry level sports car and that the factory had to make a few compromises to keep the cost low and not crossover with other product offerings (e.g. Subaru WRX).

The best upgrades you can make (apart from the driver ) are high performance tires (personally I would change also the rims to some better looking) and a set of high quality coilovers. All the other changes (e.g., bushings, bars, bigger bolts etc.) will provide just a refinement of the existing product.

And on power upgrades ... stay away from tunes! They manage mainly to make a bit better the torque dip, but they don't understand that the dip was created from the factory on purpose. If you drive the car the way it was intented to be driven, you'll not have any serious issue with the dip. A tune makes sense ONLY if you make considerable changes to your engine.
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:40 AM   #23
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Don't pay too much attention on haters over here. Some of them will even tell you that the car doesn't need anything, forgeting that it was meant to be an entry level sports car and that the factory had to make a few compromises to keep the cost low and not crossover with other product offerings (e.g. Subaru WRX).

The best upgrades you can make (apart from the driver ) are high performance tires (personally I would change also the rims to some better looking) and a set of high quality coilovers. All the other changes (e.g., bushings, bars, bigger bolts etc.) will provide just a refinement of the existing product.

And on power upgrades ... stay away from tunes! They manage mainly to make a bit better the torque dip, but they don't understand that the dip was created from the factory on purpose. If you drive the car the way it was intented to be driven, you'll not have any serious issue with the dip. A tune makes sense ONLY if you make considerable changes to your engine.
I do intend to put power upgrades last. Coilovers would be the next one after the oil cooler.

With regards to app, do you have any recommendations for the 86 that can include the oil temperature reading? I paid for Racechrono but it did not have the oil temperature reading function for the 86 and the guys from racechrono confirmed it isn't available in their app.
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