Carbon fiber options?

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by drz400dude

Thanks, that is cheap! Found some 282 3k plain weave for $6 for a 1'x3' piece. I'll give it a shot and see how it works.

Good find!

[sirsol66]

Mechanical engineer trying to get into some aesthetic only work with carbon fiber. What kind of resin (trying to be as budget friendly as possible here, as I'm about 100% sure I'll be screwing these up) do you guys recommend? Other than the actual carbon sheets and resin, is there anything else that's necessary?

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by sirsol66

Mechanical engineer trying to get into some aesthetic only work with carbon fiber. What kind of resin (trying to be as budget friendly as possible here, as I'm about 100% sure I'll be screwing these up) do you guys recommend? Other than the actual carbon sheets and resin, is there anything else that's necessary?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6ep3qZfsLE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6ep3qZfsLE[/ame]

I use the resin this guy uses in his vid here. I'll grab the name for you later this eve.

Learning carbon is a hell of a bumpy road in my experience. I screwed up a lot and any small mishap can ruin hours upon hours of work.

its all about being prepared and prompt and never take shortcuts. Nothing can substitute hard elbow grease and many hours of sanding and prep.

Im not expert but heres some tricks and tools I like.

A nice big portable LED light- to check imperfections, bubbles, or anything stuck in the resin.

Heat gun- for helping remove bubbles.

Foam brushes- I use foam brushes because I've lost many a bristle in my resin that are sometimes hard to spot and aggravating when eventually found under 3 coats of resin and clear.

Spray on adhesive- much simpler process to adhere carbon to part. Heres a trick as well, spray the entire back of your piece of carbon before you stick it on your part with spray-on adhesive and let it dry. It will lock the fibers/weave in place so you dont accidentally mess it up when overlaying. This was a game changer for me.

Spray your part black before you overlay (this is a must).

When you are wet sanding- pay attention to the color of the water coming off the part, if its white, your sanding just the resin which is good. If it turns grey, you have sanded through the resin and are sanding the carbon which will mess the finish up greatly.

I'll think of more in a bit and update. I'm overlaying my center console right now which has been fun.

Investing in a vacuum bagging set up will greatly improve your results if your parts are complex in shape. Highly recommend.

[drz400dude]

Originally Posted by sirsol66

Mechanical engineer trying to get into some aesthetic only work with carbon fiber. What kind of resin (trying to be as budget friendly as possible here, as I'm about 100% sure I'll be screwing these up) do you guys recommend? Other than the actual carbon sheets and resin, is there anything else that's necessary?

ME's aren't allowed out of their office or to handle tools!

Originally Posted by olsonpg

I use the resin this guy uses in his vid here. I'll grab the name for you later this eve.

Learning carbon is a hell of a bumpy road in my experience. I screwed up a lot and any small mishap can ruin hours upon hours of work.

its all about being prepared and prompt and never take shortcuts. Nothing can substitute hard elbow grease and many hours of sanding and prep.

Im not expert but heres some tricks and tools I like.

A nice big portable LED light- to check imperfections, bubbles, or anything stuck in the resin.

Heat gun- for helping remove bubbles.

Foam brushes- I use foam brushes because I've lost many a bristle in my resin that are sometimes hard to spot and aggravating when eventually found under 3 coats of resin and clear.

Spray on adhesive- much simpler process to adhere carbon to part. Heres a trick as well, spray the entire back of your piece of carbon before you stick it on your part with spray-on adhesive and let it dry. It will lock the fibers/weave in place so you dont accidentally mess it up when overlaying. This was a game changer for me.

Spray your part black before you overlay (this is a must).

When you are wet sanding- pay attention to the color of the water coming off the part, if its white, your sanding just the resin which is good. If it turns grey, you have sanded through the resin and are sanding the carbon which will mess the finish up greatly.

I'll think of more in a bit and update. I'm overlaying my center console right now which has been fun.

Investing in a vacuum bagging set up will greatly improve your results if your parts are complex in shape. Highly recommend.

Learning is a very bumpy road! I'm glad my work paid for my training. I think trying to do aesthetic work is even more difficult. For me at work as long as it is structurally sound it will work!

Spot on again with the prep work. I will spend all day doing prep work if I have to. It's the difference between it coming out wavy or nice and smooth, and also getting a good bond.

Heat is nice, but be sure to follow resin manufacturer's specs on heat. If you have a wet/runny resin heat can cause it to run and possibly come out lean. Plus resin is a chemical reaction with heat as a byproduct. If you heat it too much it can exotherm and ruin the layup. I usually let the resin kick a little to thicken up before applying heat.

Vacuum bagging def. makes it easier, but I've had great results on some funky ass parts at work just doing a wet layup, lay down some peel ply or perforated ply, and using a brush to push out air bubbles. Couldn't tell the difference unless you looked very close with a bright light!

Couple questions?

Why would you use spray adhesive instead of laying up and bonding directly to the part? Does carbon not bond well to plastic? Do you put a boundary layer between the part with release agent and pop it off after it cures, then use adhesive to bond?

And why do you spray the part black? So you don't get color showing through the fibers?

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by drz400dude

ME's aren't allowed out of their office or to handle tools!



Learning is a very bumpy road! I'm glad my work paid for my training. I think trying to do aesthetic work is even more difficult. For me at work as long as it is structurally sound it will work!

Spot on again with the prep work. I will spend all day doing prep work if I have to. It's the difference between it coming out wavy or nice and smooth, and also getting a good bond.

Heat is nice, but be sure to follow resin manufacturer's specs on heat. If you have a wet/runny resin heat can cause it to run and possibly come out lean. Plus resin is a chemical reaction with heat as a byproduct. If you heat it too much it can exotherm and ruin the layup. I usually let the resin kick a little to thicken up before applying heat.

Vacuum bagging def. makes it easier, but I've had great results on some funky ass parts at work just doing a wet layup, lay down some peel ply or perforated ply, and using a brush to push out air bubbles. Couldn't tell the difference unless you looked very close with a bright light!

Couple questions?

Why would you use spray adhesive instead of laying up and bonding directly to the part? Does carbon not bond well to plastic? Do you put a boundary layer between the part with release agent and pop it off after it cures, then use adhesive to bond?

And why do you spray the part black? So you don't get color showing through the fibers?

Ahh good advice! I should look up my epoxy specs because I tend to nuke it with a heat gun right away. On complex parts with multiple sandings and epoxy coats i've never been able to get a perfect glass finish. I always get minor bubbles and clouds. Nothing that is really noticeable but its enough for me to question my process.

Your peel ply method is intriguing. do you lay down the peel ply so you can really massage the carbon onto the part or is it strictly to get the bubbles out.
I'd love to learn how this is done.

And yeah, if your only putting one layer of fiber over your part you'll usually get areas where the part can be seen between the weave. If its a dark color or black it all blends in but if its white you'll most def see it. It will look like little white dots all over the place.

I think the only reason I use spray adhesive is convenience. I mainly do interior parts so I really dont need a tough chemical bond between the carbon and the part. The spray on adhesive and then well saturating the carbon has always been more than enough to keep the carbon well secured.

Aesthetic carbon work has kicked my ass for years, but I refuse to give up until I've mastered it.

I'm thinking about investing into an infusion process. It seems to be what most people have settled on when looking to achieve consistent aesthetic parts.

[drz400dude]

Originally Posted by olsonpg

Ahh good advice! I should look up my epoxy specs because I tend to nuke it with a heat gun right away. On complex parts with multiple sandings and epoxy coats i've never been able to get a perfect glass finish. I always get minor bubbles and clouds. Nothing that is really noticeable but its enough for me to question my process.

Your peel ply method is intriguing. do you lay down the peel ply so you can really massage the carbon onto the part or is it strictly to get the bubbles out.
I'd love to learn how this is done.

And yeah, if your only putting one layer of fiber over your part you'll usually get areas where the part can be seen between the weave. If its a dark color or black it all blends in but if its white you'll most def see it. It will look like little white dots all over the place.

I think the only reason I use spray adhesive is convenience. I mainly do interior parts so I really dont need a tough chemical bond between the carbon and the part. The spray on adhesive and then well saturating the carbon has always been more than enough to keep the carbon well secured.

Aesthetic carbon work has kicked my ass for years, but I refuse to give up until I've mastered it.

I'm thinking about investing into an infusion process. It seems to be what most people have settled on when looking to achieve consistent aesthetic parts.

The peel ply method is what we use at work. But peel ply will give you a matte finish. We do it at work because we paint over it after. If you want a gloss look I'd use a straight piece of vacuum bag (thicker plastic may work) or perforated ply for a gloss look. Perf might give you little resin blobs every inch or however far apart the holes are, but you can sand them smooth. It really allows you to work the carbon to mold around the part, and allows you to use a brush to push all the air bubbles out. Just be careful you don't distort the plies underneath, especially if using something with thin tows like 1k or most fiberglass.

[Hawk77FT]

Adhesive spray will fail at above 50 degrees celsius. The problem is in the summer inside you will reach that temp in no time...so the carbon will start de laminating. I recommend using the resin as bonding agent between cf and the part.
I use spray only when i lay the carbon in the mold!