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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


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Old 04-08-2021, 02:16 AM   #99
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The GR86 is objectively a better car and people deserve to be hyped for it.
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simply stating facts.

But I certainly expect that they most definitely will be better than the cars they replace.
I am definitely hyped for the 2nd gen and will be looking forward to getting one. But that's exactly what I have is hype, and it's what you have, hype. Not facts. Until it's released and been out for a few years, you can't say any "facts" about it being better than 1st gen. Reliability is what Toyota is about. You can't state facts until the story is done. I certainly expect you to be right about 2nd gen, but nothing at this point is fact or objective until it stands the test of time.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:22 AM   #100
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I am definitely hyped for the 2nd gen and will be looking forward to getting one. But that's exactly what I have is hype, and it's what you have, hype. Not facts. Until it's released and been out for a few years, you can't say any "facts" about it being better than 1st gen. Reliability is what Toyota is about. You can't state facts until the story is done. I certainly expect you to be right about 2nd gen, but nothing at this point is fact or objective until it stands the test of time.
I understand where you are coming from completely, but if we’re being honest I don’t feel any Subaru engined vehicle to be the ultimate reliable vehicle. Will be interesting to see if the new changes to the 2.4 motor change that perception.

Toyota’s engines they make themselves however are extremely reliable, no question.

I was stating how the new car has the same chassis, just more rigid with a more Hp motor so Performance will definitely be better.

But you’re absolutely correct that we won’t know how reliable these new cars will be until a few years from now.

It’s always a gamble buying the first year of a new platform that’s for sure. You make a good point.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:41 AM   #101
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I am definitely hyped for the 2nd gen and will be looking forward to getting one. But that's exactly what I have is hype, and it's what you have, hype. Not facts. Until it's released and been out for a few years, you can't say any "facts" about it being better than 1st gen. Reliability is what Toyota is about. You can't state facts until the story is done. I certainly expect you to be right about 2nd gen, but nothing at this point is fact or objective until it stands the test of time.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:06 AM   #102
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I’m completely calm, simply stating facts. It seems to me you are the one who is worked up for no reason.
Ahh yes, the classic "I'm not mad, you are" response.
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:02 AM   #103
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Wasn’t intended for anyone in particular. Simply speaking my mind. I felt that paying for a Hakone for the same price as a PP Brz wasn’t worth it to me PERSONALLY.

Every post about the new gen I’ve seen of yours you keep commenting “how bad it “looks” and you hate it.

The front fenders you “hate” are completely functional. The side skirts you “hate” are easily changed.

You sound like an ex GF who can’t except the fact that people have moved on.
The new car has a better motor with improved HP and Torque curve, and a 50% more rigid chassis.
You KNOW that this car will be a far better performer than your car, but simply because it doesn’t “look” good to you, you bash it.

Toyota/Subaru both should be applauded that they made this car at all in 2021-22, and especially with improvements in today’s SUV, EV market.

Hakone was only made for ONE year, the fact that you say just as many of them are being tracked/raced over the multiple years these cars were offered is nonsense. These are DRIVERS cars, yes more than 50% of them don’t track them, but they are built for DRIVERS.

My Girlfriend Christine has a 2019 PP BRZ and I absolutely love driving her car, but the new car is most definitely a step up. We get it, you always talk about how the reveal was “unexciting” blah blah. Only to people like you who prefer “looks” over performance.

I’m very proud of the improvements they made on the motor and chassis. There is no doubt this will be a better DRIVERS car.

Funny how you have the word Racecar in your sig, as you never RACE your car.

Again you don’t show any appreciation that a new gen even exists, especially when it’s going to be a much better performing car.
You knock “functional” vents and “looks” while ignoring the MANY improvements.

I love the Hakone green color, always have, I was simply stating for the same price the PP BRZ was more worth the same $ TO ME.

But again, as someone who doesn’t truly “drive” their car, you wouldn’t understand.

I love both generations of the twins immensely, but unlike yourself I truly welcome and appreciate the new car, and don’t knock the “looks” over the far better performance gains , or the fact they are making a 2nd Gen at all.

The fact these cars are coming out at all should be applauded, not knocked.
You may not “race” your car, but for those of us that do, we can appreciate the chassis/ motor improvements.
Did you not claim to attempt to buy a Hakone twice and both were sold to somebody else after your credit check came back?
My objection to your comment wasn't that you think it was a better deal but your wide sweeping statement that anybody buying a Hakone only care about appearance and doesn't drive it as "intended". I ask again what is the "intended" way to drive it? I also maintain that as many Hakone owners will track or performance drive them as much as any PP one.
I put 150,000 miles on my FRS. COVID restrictions mean the Hakone will be far less but it is still driven everyday. If you actually ever buy one instead of just talking about it will you drive it that much?
It is a car, a very nice one, but still just a car and it's intended purpose is to get you from point A to point B. How you chose to drive it in between those points is up to you not the car.
I do think the next gen is ugly as hell and I will continue to say so. I also think that the 10% to 12% increase in performance (depending on who you listen to) is wonderful hype but far from the earth shattering changes some make it out to be. What I have not done nor will not due is try to convince others that my opinion is the truth such as you seem to like to do.

Oh and congratulations in finally getting through a whole post without including a mention of your " 2007 STI Crawford built, and 91 NSX. Sold my 2012 SS/RS sema Camaro"
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:50 AM   #104
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:09 AM   #105
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The brainwashing makes complete sense then!

In all seriousness though, I feel the new cars will noticeably perform better, even on the same chassis.

Your Civic Type R is a prime example, if you drive a 2019 on track (the year you have) and drive a 2020 Type-R right after, the improvements to the suspension, brakes, etc are IMMEDIATELY apparent. I noticed right away how much they improved the 2020.

That’s how the new twins will be to me I feel, even though the same chassis the improvements made will be noticeable right off the bat.

Many people won’t like the new cars, even if improved. I’m ok with that!
The suspension changes were made more for the road than the track. Now if you said 2019 vs 2021 LE I'd buy it, the LE is supposedly 1 second faster than the same year normal car, but the LE has different suspension tuning again and track tires stock.

The rotor changes are a pretty nice and healthy change, but those were heat capacity changes due to 2piece vs 1piece, the pads are the same.

In addition to the above, the 2019 to the 2020+ is still the same generation, there not about to make some HUGE leaps in performance like they did from FK2 to FK8.

I'm excited for these new twins, but boy is that BRZ front end real ugly.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:36 AM   #106
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TCoat- I simply mentioned the fact that for someone who tracks their cars, that FOR THE SAME price the PP BRZ was the better buy for the added suspension, brake improvements.
I will always love the Hakone, but I stand by what I said about the PP being the better buy for the same $. Also, Hakone was under 600 built if I recall correctly, to say just as many are being tracked as PP cars is utter nonsense. Again, I’m at the track often, especially in 2021. I’ve seen 2 Hakone ever on track here, but dozens of BRZ PP cars. Again you DONT track your car so like always you speak without any knowledge, just bias.

Also, my credit is phenomenal at over 820, they didn’t “sell the car to someone else because of my credit” but told me they couldn’t locate one mid last year, but only after promising me they could, getting me into the dealer and after running my credit. They then tried to get me to buy another car, which is a common trap tactic by dealers. Get your facts straight, I’m very responsible financially. When I did actually locate a Hakone 3 hours away that was new, I got pre-approved over the phone and had finalized a price with the dealer. They knew I was unable to make it there for 2 days as I was at a conference for work that week. Another buyer came in and offered them more, so they sold it to him instead. Had NOTHING to do with credit. I love the Hakone color, always have, but mine would have had to get modded suspension and brakes immediately for my track use. That’s why I mentioned the PP being a better “starting” car for people like myself. They most certainly aren’t as eye catching as the Hakone however, no doubt.

I never said the performance of the new car will be “earth shattering” like you say. If you reread the bottom of the last page I state how the performance of the new cars won’t blow us away, but that we will definitely notice an improvement over the previous model. Again I know people who HAVE been in the new car and can attest to this.

And AGAIN you bring up looks, which are subjective to each person, who cares?
As stated by others on the previous page your BIAS and hate towards these new cars is completely evident, and you and a few others are acting like immature children, grow up.

“If I actually buy one instead of talking about it”....again if you ever take off your hate blinders and read I’ve stated that I love the current car, and drive my GF’s 19 BRZ PP often, which is why I’m looking forward to the new car, and sold my Camaro to buy the new car. I can’t buy what isn’t being sold yet, but that may be too hard for you to comprehend...

Difference is, I welcome the improvements and don’t bash the new model on every forum thread simply because “it doesn’t look good” blah blah.

Every piece of data I’ve mentioned on the new cars statistically have been FACT, not rumor or filled with bias/hate like your posts. Again, if you actually did research you would know this to be true.

You can hate me and the new car all you’d like. Your immaturity speaks loudly.

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Old 04-08-2021, 10:41 AM   #107
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The suspension changes were made more for the road than the track. Now if you said 2019 vs 2021 LE I'd buy it, the LE is supposedly 1 second faster than the same year normal car, but the LE has different suspension tuning again and track tires stock.

The rotor changes are a pretty nice and healthy change, but those were heat capacity changes due to 2piece vs 1piece, the pads are the same.

In addition to the above, the 2019 to the 2020+ is still the same generation, there not about to make some HUGE leaps in performance like they did from FK2 to FK8.

I'm excited for these new twins, but boy is that BRZ front end real ugly.
The limited editions are VERY nice. The local dealer here has one but it’s listed for over $10,000 over msrp!! Someone will still buy it though lol.
The new type r’s are extremely fun to drive, I’m sure you’re enjoying yours a ton, it’s by far the best FWD car ever made.

I agree completely that the new BRZ front isn’t good looking at all, I definitely prefer the Toyota model more, which is why I’ve decided on that car.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:30 PM   #108
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Some quick “rough” translations for you

3:15 Beautiful 86 drift
8:16 86 has a more exciting initial throttle response whereas BRZ has a more linear throttle response
8:35 BRZ has deeper roll in the back?
9:10 BRZ has a very stable cornering feel, no sense of insecurity at all
12:14 86 feels like a sharpened version of the early years zenki 86
14:10 86 has a very excitable feeling from the chassis
14:43 BRZ has a stable feeling, but within that stability you can feel that it is FR
16:45 BRZ despite being FR has the sense of security of an AWD car
17:37 It has started to rain but the stability and security is still very high
17:55 BRZ seems to have inherited Subaru’s AWD philosophy
18:45 When BRZ is made to slide it is very controllable
19:20 BRZ characteristics is not only one of composure, it also accepts drifting
20:30 In 86 you can feel the GR characteristics from the Yaris and Supra
22:15 In the 86 you can sense the flavour of the Yaris and Supra. In contrast, in the BRZ you can sense the flavour of the Impreza and Levorg
22:50 You can really feel the added distinct flavours from each company between the BRZ and 86 with this generation
23:43 You get a grand touring sense from the BRZ
24:15 When you wring it out it is fun as a FR car, but when you’re not the Subaru DNA is great
24:40 In 3rd gear, the 86’s rear still drifts, but in the BRZ the rear stays planted in 3rd.
24:45 In 2nd gear you can get the BRZ to drift but the rear stability is distinct

This is what one publication was able to gather from translating it:

"They report, first and foremost, that the new cars feel quite different from the last generation. And that should hardly come as a surprise since both make more power. The new BRZ is quoted as making 228 hp in the US, but both can make up to 232 hp depending on their market. That’s up from 205 hp for the last generation.

As a result, both get to 60 mph in just 6.3 seconds, which is 1.1 seconds faster than the outgoing models. More than that, though, the drivers also report that the cars are more refined. Neither has lost its sports car edge, but they seem to be a little quieter at idle.

The good news for fans of the RWD dynamics is that little of their sense of fun seems to have been lost in the generational transition. Both cars handle well thanks to their low center of gravity and low weight.

Although both hosts appreciate the BRZ, they seem to have a slight preference for the GR 86. The Toyota is a little more tail happy, whereas the BRZ seems to have a more neutral character.
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:39 PM   #109
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TCoat- I simply mentioned the fact that for someone who tracks their cars, that FOR THE SAME price the PP BRZ was the better buy for the added suspension, brake improvements.
I will always love the Hakone, but I stand by what I said about the PP being the better buy for the same $. Also, Hakone was under 600 built if I recall correctly, to say just as many are being tracked as PP cars is utter nonsense. Again, I’m at the track often, especially in 2021. I’ve seen 2 Hakone ever on track here, but dozens of BRZ PP cars. Again you DONT track your car so like always you speak without any knowledge, just bias.
Tcoat was making a point that people will choose to drive whatever variation of the 86/BRZ however they want, on the track or as a daily, and not dictated by some rando on the internet.

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I never said the performance of the new car will be “earth shattering” like you say. If you reread the bottom of the last page I state how the performance of the new cars won’t blow us away, but that we will definitely notice an improvement over the previous model. Again I know people who HAVE been in the new car and can attest to this.
No shit. Given that this is a new generation, I would expect the new car to have significant improvements over the original, improvements that I myself am looking forward to. However, it is not wrong to be skeptical of the new car UNTIL it comes out. You only know a handful of people who have driven the car; wait until the car is released to the public.

This is your problem: you are already declaring the car to be superior overall, when in fact it is only superior in terms of performance, stock for stock. Long-term ownership, reliability, and how well the car responds to mods are areas of concern of mine and likely areas of concern for others as well.

I wouldn't trade in my first-gen for a GR86, because among a plethora of other reasons, I find that the improvements are not enough to warrant trading in my car for. And yes, this is my opinion, I'm not stating it as fact. By all means, nobody is going to stop you from buying the GR86, and I'm fully interested in hearing your thoughts both performance-wise and long-term.

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And AGAIN you bring up looks, which are subjective to each person, who cares?

As stated by others on the previous page your BIAS and hate towards these new cars is completely evident, and you and a few others are acting like immature children, grow up.
Believe it or not, looks are just as important as anything else. I'm not interested in driving something that does not appeal to me from a looks perspective. I actually find the GR86 to be quite good looking if not a bit on the porky side compared to the last generation. However, some other people do not like the car and will voice their opinion by simply not buying the new car. I'd say that Toyota and Subaru would care if sales were not as expected as a result.

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“If I actually buy one instead of talking about it”....again if you ever take off your hate blinders and read I’ve stated that I love the current car, and drive my GF’s 19 BRZ PP often, which is why I’m looking forward to the new car, and sold my Camaro to buy the new car. I can’t buy what isn’t being sold yet, but that may be too hard for you to comprehend...
Well clearly, it was too hard for you to comprehend that he wasn't referring to the new model; he was referring to the Hakone.

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Difference is, I welcome the improvements and don’t bash the new model on every forum thread simply because “it doesn’t look good” blah blah.

Every piece of data I’ve mentioned on the new cars statistically have been FACT, not rumor or filled with bias/hate like your posts. Again, if you actually did research you would know this to be true.

You can hate me and the new car all you’d like. Your immaturity speaks loudly, the truth hurts. Enjoy your lawn ornament!
But Tcoat doesn't go in every thread and bash the new model for its looks. He has his opinions of the car and you have yours. That's that.
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:57 PM   #110
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TCoat- I simply mentioned the fact that for someone who tracks their cars, that FOR THE SAME price the PP BRZ was the better buy for the added suspension, brake improvements.
I will always love the Hakone, but I stand by what I said about the PP being the better buy for the same $. Also, Hakone was under 600 built if I recall correctly, to say just as many are being tracked as PP cars is utter nonsense. Again, I’m at the track often, especially in 2021. I’ve seen 2 Hakone ever on track here, but dozens of BRZ PP cars. Again you DONT track your car so like always you speak without any knowledge, just bias.

Also, my credit is phenomenal at over 820, they didn’t “sell the car to someone else because of my credit” but told me they couldn’t locate one mid last year, but only after promising me they could, getting me into the dealer and after running my credit. They then tried to get me to buy another car, which is a common trap tactic by dealers. Get your facts straight, I’m very responsible financially. When I did actually locate a Hakone 3 hours away that was new, I got pre-approved over the phone and had finalized a price with the dealer. They knew I was unable to make it there for 2 days as I was at a conference for work that week. Another buyer came in and offered them more, so they sold it to him instead. Had NOTHING to do with credit. I love the Hakone color, always have, but mine would have had to get modded suspension and brakes immediately for my track use. That’s why I mentioned the PP being a better “starting” car for people like myself. They most certainly aren’t as eye catching as the Hakone however, no doubt.

I never said the performance of the new car will be “earth shattering” like you say. If you reread the bottom of the last page I state how the performance of the new cars won’t blow us away, but that we will definitely notice an improvement over the previous model. Again I know people who HAVE been in the new car and can attest to this.

And AGAIN you bring up looks, which are subjective to each person, who cares?
As stated by others on the previous page your BIAS and hate towards these new cars is completely evident, and you and a few others are acting like immature children, grow up.

“If I actually buy one instead of talking about it”....again if you ever take off your hate blinders and read I’ve stated that I love the current car, and drive my GF’s 19 BRZ PP often, which is why I’m looking forward to the new car, and sold my Camaro to buy the new car. I can’t buy what isn’t being sold yet, but that may be too hard for you to comprehend...

Difference is, I welcome the improvements and don’t bash the new model on every forum thread simply because “it doesn’t look good” blah blah.

Every piece of data I’ve mentioned on the new cars statistically have been FACT, not rumor or filled with bias/hate like your posts. Again, if you actually did research you would know this to be true.

You can hate me and the new car all you’d like. Your immaturity speaks loudly.
I see you deleted your original post and are now in full back pedal mode.
Good thing it was quoted:

Originally Posted by RetroRacer View Post
So glad i didn’t buy the local Hakone edition 86 manual with 950 miles for sale for $31k locally. Color is nice, but even the Performance pack BRZ was a better buy for the same $. Again I’m amazed how many people pay more for a “color” over a better driving car. Most people who own a Hakone don’t “track” their car, that’s the difference, they just want a car that looks good, but don’t use the drivers car for what it’s intended for.
The new car will outperform the old one on every front.
Definitely prefer the Toyota styling to the BRZ. But will change mine immensely for an upcoming sema show. A bigger 2.4 motor with improved power band and better chassis that’s 50% more rigid to build upon, Well done Toyota/Subaru!
Will sit nicely in my garage next to my 2007 STI Crawford built, and 91 NSX. Sold my 2012 SS/RS sema Camaro recently but I prefer lightweight over HP. Look forward to building a phenomenal new GR86.

I do not hate anything beyond the appearance. Big ugly side vents are big and ugly no matter if they are functional or not.
Not once have I bashed the potential performance. I just don't play the bench racer numbers game and will wait to see what it actually does with that massive 10% increase.
We shall see who has more miles and wheel time my" lawn ornament" or your weekend warrior racer wanttabe toy.
Funny you think it so much superior but already planning to change it!
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:01 PM   #111
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I noticed that too; it was gone at the time I first saw the thread (last midnight).
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:18 PM   #112
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Bunch of poser internet keyboard warriors

Everything I stated was a fact, you girls simply are jealous little bitches.

Literally act like 12 year olds, who live with your parents. I’ve been modding/racing cars longer than you little millennials have been alive. Hope to see you all at one of the nationwide gatherings or meets, oh wait I forgot you stay at home because your scared of the fake Plandemic

You should see my inbox messages from multiple people who thanked me for speaking up against you TCoat, about they’ve never liked you but don’t want to say anything as they know you’ll stalk them to and harass them. You’re an internet bully, but a fucking ***** in real life.

I’ve since moved over to another forum anyhow which is full of adults who can have actual discussions, and different opinions, not high school tweeny bopper BS that goes on here.

Keep harassing people who dare to have different opinions than yourself, you’re the epitome of an internet keyboard warrior. Look at how many posts you have lmfao, you DONT EVEN WORK, you spend all day on this forum, you have no life, literally

You won’t have to worry about my facts & opinions that get your panties in a bunch any longer, I will never return here at all after this post to read or engage any further. Now go ahead with more pointless posts against me that I won’t ever read, but will give you nerds the internet attention you so deeply care about!

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