PBM modded knuckles

[sid94]

Looking to get more steering angle out of the car I tried searching to see if anybody had done a review of the pbm knuckle mod, not the entire kit just the knuckle mod but I didn't find anything. I have the megan racing inner tie rods already but I still want more.

200 and a week maybe 2 of down time on the car isn't a bad deal for a set of knuckles. Or do you guys have any other alternatives? All opinions are appreciated!

[Shinchu]

Search for ambush drift on youtube. He has the angle set and posts here as @Gatorbush. His vids go over the installation and how well it has been performing for almost a year since.

[sid94]

Saw the videos but he has the entire kit, what I'm talking about is just the knuckles

[liquidsky44]

Did you ordered the knuckles? I ordered mine but it still not shipped out to me after 2 months. Still waiting...

[tato.valverde]

Originally Posted by sid94

Looking to get more steering angle out of the car I tried searching to see if anybody had done a review of the pbm knuckle mod, not the entire kit just the knuckle mod but I didn't find anything. I have the megan racing inner tie rods already but I still want more.

200 and a week maybe 2 of down time on the car isn't a bad deal for a set of knuckles. Or do you guys have any other alternatives? All opinions are appreciated!

The knuckle mod they do is intended to work only for their angle kit (and probably soon to be obsolete due to their new knuckles being finally available). In order to run the knuckles alone, they would have to custom make you outer tie rods that work with the knuckles. Do-able, but not just 200 anymore

[TylerLieberman]

If all you want is a knuckle, look elsewhere as there are quite a few people who offer solutions.

Or just get tie rods and be done with it. $80, yields 80-90% of the angle you'd get from modded knuckles, and can be done within an hour, easily. No downtime for the car needed.

Unless you're running higher power levels, the PBM kit isn't really all that useful anyways. Only time you'll really use it is if you screw up. Otherwise, a simple knuckle or tie rod solution will suffice.

[sid94]

Originally Posted by liquidsky44

Did you ordered the knuckles? I ordered mine but it still not shipped out to me after 2 months. Still waiting...

I did not, they told me that I would need the tie rod spacers along with the flca because they would rub on the stock control arm

Originally Posted by tato.valverde

The knuckle mod they do is intended to work only for their angle kit (and probably soon to be obsolete due to their new knuckles being finally available). In order to run the knuckles alone, they would have to custom make you outer tie rods that work with the knuckles. Do-able, but not just 200 anymore

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

If all you want is a knuckle, look elsewhere as there are quite a few people who offer solutions.

Or just get tie rods and be done with it. $80, yields 80-90% of the angle you'd get from modded knuckles, and can be done within an hour, easily. No downtime for the car needed.

Unless you're running higher power levels, the PBM kit isn't really all that useful anyways. Only time you'll really use it is if you screw up. Otherwise, a simple knuckle or tie rod solution will suffice.

Yea I'll figure out what else I can do and when I get more power I'll probably get the full kit

[liquidsky44]

Just a FYI for those running the Essex AP Sprint kit and intending to get the new PBM knuckles. They will not fit. You would need to customized a new bracket for the Sprint Kit BBK.

[Shady195]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

If all you want is a knuckle, look elsewhere as there are quite a few people who offer solutions.

Or just get tie rods and be done with it. $80, yields 80-90% of the angle you'd get from modded knuckles, and can be done within an hour, easily. No downtime for the car needed.

Unless you're running higher power levels, the PBM kit isn't really all that useful anyways. Only time you'll really use it is if you screw up. Otherwise, a simple knuckle or tie rod solution will suffice.

Eh, I wouldn't go quiet that far. I've had both, its a pretty dramatic difference.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Shady195

Eh, I wouldn't go quiet that far. I've had both, its a pretty dramatic difference.

I would. Having driven on and installed both, and while there's a noticeable difference, it's not like the tie rods by themselves are not a valuable option. Knuckles by themselves are also a good option.

The biggest difference is that the knuckles will help decrease ackerman, while simply adding tie rods will increase it. Also, the knuckle will allow steering to react faster, but the tie rods is just adding more rotation lock to lock.

That being said, the knuckles give you quicker steering with less scrub, while the tie rods add some scrub and just require more steering rotation lock to lock. That's probably a big part of the differences you're noticing.

[Shady195]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I would. Having driven on and installed both, and while there's a noticeable difference, it's not like the tie rods by themselves are not a valuable option. Knuckles by themselves are also a good option.

The biggest difference is that the knuckles will help decrease ackerman, while simply adding tie rods will increase it. Also, the knuckle will allow steering to react faster, but the tie rods is just adding more rotation lock to lock.

That being said, the knuckles give you quicker steering with less scrub, while the tie rods add some scrub and just require more steering rotation lock to lock. That's probably a big part of the differences you're noticing.

The angle difference between just the Inner tie rods and the knuckles is quite substantial, this is also having driven and installed both.

This is close/at full lock with Knuckles.. You're not getting anything close to this with the megan inners.

[Shady195]

BTW Tyler, I'm not trying to be a ****. You seem to have a lot more experience under your belt than me

While the tie rods do add some, I find if you plan to get knuckles or anything of the sort in the future, you're better off saving the 80 bucks.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Shady195

The angle difference between just the Inner tie rods and the knuckles is quite substantial, this is also having driven and installed both.

This is close/at full lock with Knuckles.. You're not getting anything close to this with the megan inners.

Originally Posted by Shady195

BTW Tyler, I'm not trying to be a ****. You seem to have a lot more experience under your belt than me

While the tie rods do add some, I find if you plan to get knuckles or anything of the sort in the future, you're better off saving the 80 bucks.

No worries man. We're allowed to have our separate opinions. It's all good. I actually agree with your statement though. Knuckles by themselves are probably the best option, as it gives you a good angle increase and eliminates some ackerman. It's also a reasonable price, typically $300-$400. If you plan on doing knuckles in the future, just do that and not spend the time with tie rods.... or you can do both lol. Might need offset spacers for the tie rods though so they don't bind.

The picture above is of my car with tie rods, but prior to alignment. I just eye balled it. The car had a bit of toe-in when it got up on the rack, so the car had a touch more when everything was said and done. As you can see, it really isn't far off from what your knuckles gave you. Roughly 80-90% compared to stock.

[TylerLieberman]

I flipped my image and put them together to show. Granted, the view is different, but it gives an idea.



The knuckles give more angle for sure, but it really isn't that big of a difference between the two. For $80, I still think the tie rods give really good value. The stock steering angle is pitiful. I would hit lock all of the time it was kind of annoying. With the tie rods, I would still hit lock, but it felt it was nowhere near as much. Gave a lot more room for big transitions without the worry of spinning out. Removing the front sway bar helped too with the snappy tendency of the front end.

The car that I drove with knuckles felt very similar to mine (we basically had the same exact setup) except his steering felt much faster. That felt perfect. If I were to do it again, I'd definitely do knuckles. However, I still stand by the tie rods for people just starting out and learning. In fact, I'd add it to the list for starting out. Coilovers, LCAs + alignement, tie rods. Those 3 things make the car much better. All of which can be done for like $1500.