KPower Industries K24 swap

[Four_wheel_drifts]

Track day two at the Ridge Motorsports Park.

As we started to get into our normal low 1.50s, we also started having massive fuel starvation issues. Most noticeable when we got down to 1/2 tank and coming out of high g corners. It wouldn’t rev past 5500-6000 rpm until the steering wheel was straight for awhile.

Does anyone in this group have track time on their swaps? What have you done, if anything, for high g fueling?

[Irace86.2.0]

What are you judging half a tank? Half a tank is likely 1/8th tank if you are going by the fuel gauge. I was over half a tank and topped off with 9 gallons.

Your choices are the fuel trap door mod, duel pumps (one for each side of the tank), or a surge tank.

[jacobe38]

I'm not kswapped - but i have the same saddle tank and suffer from severe fuel starvation on e85

my recommendation is run 93 until you get a fix in - verus fuel door is a decent bandaid but is not a cure for all situations and faster drivers.

im working on an aux fuel solution - lifter pump in the passenger side to feed main pick up

[Four_wheel_drifts]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

What are you judging half a tank? Half a tank is likely 1/8th tank if you are going by the fuel gauge. I was over half a tank and topped off with 9 gallons.

Your choices are the fuel trap door mod, duel pumps (one for each side of the tank), or a surge tank.

I’m getting that Dejavu feeling like I’ve seen this discussed before.

Is the dual pumps better than a surge tank? I think AR Motorsports is leaning toward a surge tank.

Mildly miffed that the Haltech firmware “update” didnt fix the fuel gauge problem. Although it is better. Gauge read half tank, but we could put 7 gallons in.

[Irace86.2.0]

I don’t think the fuel fix has been released yet. The other update was a different update. Kpower said they would send an email when the fix was released.

A surge tank is best. I don’t think e85 makes any difference, as far as fuel starvation. If the injectors and pump and FPR are all up to the task, which they likely are, then it is a problem with lateral g’s pulling fuel away from the pump. You need dual pickup points with baffles or a surge tank. The fuel door works if there is less sustained g’s, so for events that would cause temporary fuel starvation, it could work.

[jacobe38]

Originally Posted by Four_wheel_drifts

I’m getting that Dejavu feeling like I’ve seen this discussed before.

Is the dual pumps better than a surge tank? I think AR Motorsports is leaning toward a surge tank.

for sure this has been discussed a lot here and there around this site and many others

for sure the best solution is surge tank!

I'm not doing that because of the cost, fire risk, and utility.

i run hpde advanced run groups. im only competing against my own lap times. i dont have the time, money, nor skill to do time attack. So for me, paying 2-5K or however much it is, sacrificing storage area in my trunk, and bringing a fire risk into the cabin isnt worth it. i don't want to wear a fire suit whenever i drive. I still use the car to haul stuff to and from track weekends, i dont tow it.

so for me, dual pump is the best way forward, as a cheap (Sub $200) in-tank solution.

e85 actually does exacerbate the fuel starvation because it is far less energy dense than 93 pump gas. The car needs more volume of e85 than it does 93. its one reason you get worse MPG running e85.

It all comes down to how fast your car is draining the fuel pump's basket during that left hand turn. the fuel door will slow down how fast it leaks out of the hole in the basket. but its still very possible to still fuel starve.

i would fuel starve on e85 with around 1/2 to 1/3 tank while i was NA, with fuel door. It was annoying but i just topped off between sessions. which is an option if you are getting through sessions OK.

[RedReplicant]

The previous owner of my car put a radium hanger w/ dw300 pump + fuel filter + surge tank + fpr in the trunk in an aluminum box. If I'd done it myself I would have figured out how to either mount the entire setup under the car or not use a surge tank since I hate having fuel in the car even though there is a fire suppression nozzle pointed at it.

Just my two cents.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by jacobe38

for sure this has been discussed a lot here and there around this site and many others

for sure the best solution is surge tank!

I'm not doing that because of the cost, fire risk, and utility.

i run hpde advanced run groups. im only competing against my own lap times. i dont have the time, money, nor skill to do time attack. So for me, paying 2-5K or however much it is, sacrificing storage area in my trunk, and bringing a fire risk into the cabin isnt worth it. i don't want to wear a fire suit whenever i drive. I still use the car to haul stuff to and from track weekends, i dont tow it.

so for me, dual pump is the best way forward, as a cheap (Sub $200) in-tank solution.

e85 actually does exacerbate the fuel starvation because it is far less energy dense than 93 pump gas. The car needs more volume of e85 than it does 93. its one reason you get worse MPG running e85.

It all comes down to how fast your car is draining the fuel pump's basket during that left hand turn. the fuel door will slow down how fast it leaks out of the hole in the basket. but its still very possible to still fuel starve.

i would fuel starve on e85 with around 1/2 to 1/3 tank while i was NA, with fuel door. It was annoying but i just topped off between sessions. which is an option if you are getting through sessions OK.

I get that it is a volume issue, so E85 has a greater likelihood of depleting the volume, but technically E85 isn’t directly the problem; the volume is the problem. A stock car on E85 versus a boosted car on pump might have the same volume problem, or the E85 could be less. If E85 was the problem then using a surge tank with E85 wouldn’t fix the problem. It is no more an E85 problem than it is a horsepower problem or a speed/track problem. A good fix for the problem wouldn’t be getting off the E85, slowing down to avoid lateral g’s, or avoiding tracks with long corners. Am I making sense on why the distinction is important?

It is true that fuel demands while cornering will be similar regardless of horsepower, so E85 will be a larger factor, but I would just rather focus on the issue. Saying to avoid E85 is like saying to avoid good tires and aero, so cornering speeds are slower. Seems if we go that route then the next thing we might suggest is adding stiffer ant-sway bars and springs to avoid roll as a means of keeping more fuel near the pickup.

[jacobe38]

Originally Posted by RedReplicant

The previous owner of my car put a radium hanger w/ dw300 pump + fuel filter + surge tank + fpr in the trunk in an aluminum box. If I'd done it myself I would have figured out how to either mount the entire setup under the car or not use a surge tank since I hate having fuel in the car even though there is a fire suppression nozzle pointed at it.

Just my two cents.

well, at least it looks like a good setup done properly, far as i can tell

but yeah, i see what youre saying. i'd rather not have that in cabin with me either.

[ballsdeep]

Anybody seen nice underbody surge tank mounting solutions for this platform??

[captain awesome]

Has anyone seen ML’s engine bay surge tank?

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=206

[ML]

Originally Posted by ballsdeep

Anybody seen nice underbody surge tank mounting solutions for this platform??

Here is a picture of the engine bay with the surge tank below, uses the stock fuel lines and converted one line to be the return and dump back into the tank. If you get a radium surge tank I would suggest replacing the hose inside that connects the pump to the regulator as I have had it split twice.

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by jacobe38

for sure this has been discussed a lot here and there around this site and many others

for sure the best solution is surge tank!

I'm not doing that because of the cost, fire risk, and utility.

i run hpde advanced run groups. im only competing against my own lap times. i dont have the time, money, nor skill to do time attack. So for me, paying 2-5K or however much it is, sacrificing storage area in my trunk, and bringing a fire risk into the cabin isnt worth it. i don't want to wear a fire suit whenever i drive. I still use the car to haul stuff to and from track weekends, i dont tow it.

so for me, dual pump is the best way forward, as a cheap (Sub $200) in-tank solution.

e85 actually does exacerbate the fuel starvation because it is far less energy dense than 93 pump gas. The car needs more volume of e85 than it does 93. its one reason you get worse MPG running e85.

It all comes down to how fast your car is draining the fuel pump's basket during that left hand turn. the fuel door will slow down how fast it leaks out of the hole in the basket. but its still very possible to still fuel starve.

i would fuel starve on e85 with around 1/2 to 1/3 tank while i was NA, with fuel door. It was annoying but i just topped off between sessions. which is an option if you are getting through sessions OK.

Has anyone posted a full How To on the secondary pump? I feel like I've seen some mention of using stock components but can't recall the combo of parts nor how to fit/plumb it all.

[jacobe38]

Originally Posted by captain awesome

Has anyone posted a full How To on the secondary pump? I feel like I've seen some mention of using stock components but can't recall the combo of parts nor how to fit/plumb it all.

No, not that I have found!

The best I've been able to locate is snippets of discussions. All text describing the broad strokes, and no videos/pictures/parts lists/how to's.

Mixed bag of super old posts where folks dont reply, newer ones where people just say it worked for them but cant be bothered to go into detail, or just vanish after saying it worked.

I think it's just a pretty niche thing that not many people do, fairly small subset of drivers who will experience this issue, care enough to fix it, but not just go to the proper surge tank solution. And the people that do it seem to all be pretty experienced and only think broad strokes are necessary to describe to others. And maybe a couple who just don't care to take the time to make a post, which is fair I guess, its time consuming to make a good how-to I'm sure.

Anyway, after a large amount of flailing around during the winter which I will call "research" I have parts and just need time to install, I'm documenting along the way and provided I am successful I plan to make a how to video/post. I'm not the youtuber/content creator type really but I see a need within the community on this one.

I'm doing final prep on the car for the track season which begins 5/11 for me. I have a gap in the schedule between 6/8 and 7/13 and I plan to try and install then, but hopefully sooner.