Torque wrench necessary for putting on wheels?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by guybo

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/154

I'm not to argue with you about it beyond this, but I have seen it and this article mentions it. It must come from uneven tightening and if you REALLY torque hard enough and it's uneven enough, you're going to warp the rotor. Read the article.

Either way, there's lots of bad things that come of under- or over-tightening and if you are inexperienced you can do some expensive damage. Even a cheap torque wrench will at least get you in the neighborhood. It's not an exact science, there's some leeway. I have a cheapo torque wrench (off Amazon) and when I do my wheels, it's plenty good enough. But when I went to do my header bolts (29 lb-ft IIRC) it was not up to the task and I had to go by feel.

So don't use impact guns or 6 foot pieces of pipe on your lug nuts. A person with a wheel wrench is NEVER going to tighten to the point of warping anything.

Originally Posted by guybo

I torque and then re-torque. It's just laziness not to. I have never had a lug nut get loose but on re-torquing I always get a just a little out of at least 1 or 2.

So... if you torqued then you should be good. Going back and retorqueing should not have any effect if you were properly torqued in the first place.

[MuseChaser]

Humfrz.. I love ya, man.. you're smart, fun, reasonable, and experienced... but I gotta put forth a few counterpoints. Be gentle...

Originally Posted by humfrz

....
Ya, know, after a shop rotates my wheels, I've never had them say that the lug nuts should be rechecked after a few miles...??humfrz

That's interesting. Every time I've had new tires mounted on alloy wheels on every car I've owned for the last 15 years, every tire shop has strongly suggested that I return after 25 miles or so and have them retorque the lug nuts (or bolts, depending upon the car). They don't charge extra for this, and have nothing to gain by offering it (that I can think of, anyway).

Originally Posted by humfrz

....Why didn't the dealership where I bought my car (with 2 miles on it) insist that I bring it back in for a lug nut tightness check, after a few miles.....??humfrz

There's tons of threads questioning the mechanical expertise of dealerships throughout this site. Dealerships exist to sell cars. Some of them have excellent service departments, too, but I'm sure many are far more concerned with getting a new car out the door than anything else. Perhaps the dealership where you bought the car fell into the latter category.

Originally Posted by humfrz

....Now, I've tightened lug nuts on 10 hole bud wheels off of large trucks, large (6') tractor wheels, drive sprockets on M-60 tanks, several other military vehicles and many, farm tractors, trailers, wagons, combines, hay bailers ........ and I've never used a torque wrench or re-checked them ....... and never had a wheel fall off.
humfrz

Total guess, Humfrz, but how many of those vehicles had steel wheels as opposed to alloy? ...hmm... maybe I'll give up on this point. One of my local tire dealers had said that alloy wheels specifically needed to be retorqued because blah blah blah, but I can't find anything to confirm that after a brief side Google expedition while writing this reply. Anyone else have any info there?

Anecdotally, I'm in 100% agreement with you; for the first 20 years of wrenching on cars, I never owned nor used a torque wrench, and I've never had a tire fall off, either. When I got further into engine work, I needed one, and I've never looked back. I like using it, and I'm a better judge of correct torque now when I'm helping someone else out and a torque wrench isn't available. The reasons FOR using one (increased accuracy and safety), to me, outweigh the reasons for not using one ("I don't need no steenking torque wrench," too expensive, convenience).

Actually, I DID lose the wheel on a boat trailer once, but not because I didn't torque the lugnuts. I lost the wheel because I forgot to put ANY kind of wrench on them; I just hand-tightened them. Scary lesson to learn; fortunately, I was hauling a VERY small light boat, no one got hurt, and no damage was done.

No offense, Humfrz. I tend to agree with you about Ivory Soap percentage of the time. (99 and 44/100%).

Best,

Barry

[humfrz]

OK, I'll have to get back to you guys later.

I have to run my granddaughters up to school.

I figure they will be safe from a wheel falling off ....... because I have a "locking" lug nut on each wheel .......


humfrz

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

I use one. Anything involving your brakes/wheels/tires is not something you half ass. If the wheel studs on these cars are really so weak, that's just another reason to use a torque wrench so you know you're not putting too much on them.

What could possibly go wrong?



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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

What could possibly go wrong?



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Now those rotors may have got warped!

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Now those rotors may have got warped!

The available water cooling should keep them from overheating though.

[justatroll]

1 - With our particular configuration it is impossible to warp the rotors by overtorquing the lug nuts

2 - On my race car I have to retorque the lugs after every race, and they have noticeably loosened, every single time. So heat + stress = loose lugs. If you never experience your lugs loosening maybe you dont drive your car very hard.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by justatroll

2 - On my race car I have to retorque the lugs after every race, and they have noticeably loosened, every single time. So heat + stress = loose lugs. If you never experience your lugs loosening maybe you dont drive your car very hard.

It may be worth your time to safety wire those after you torque them. I imagine having some come off in the middle of a race would be a very bad thing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by justatroll

1 - With our particular configuration it is impossible to warp the rotors by overtorquing the lug nuts

2 - On my race car I have to retorque the lugs after every race, and they have noticeably loosened, every single time. So heat + stress = loose lugs. If you never experience your lugs loosening maybe you dont drive your car very hard.

So maybe you are not torqueing them enough to start with. Maybe for your wheels and conditions they should be 20 pounds more.
For that matter does everybody know what the torque should be for your particular wheels? Do you just use the rate given for the stock wheels? Is that proper for yours? Is not the torque given in the manual for stock wheels on street driven cars? If the exact torque is so vital then should it not vary with your set up?

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

It may be worth your time to safety wire those after you torque them. I imagine having some come off in the middle of a race would be a very bad thing.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So maybe you are not torqueing them enough to start with. Maybe for your wheels and conditions they should be 20 pounds more.
For that matter does everybody know what the torque should be for your particular wheels? Do you just use the rate given for the stock wheels? Is that proper for yours? Is not the torque given in the manual for stock wheels on street driven cars? If the exact torque is so vital then should it not vary with your set up?

It is just a known fact at the track that you need to retorque your wheels after every race. Every driver I know has it as #2 on their checklist.
(#1 is check GAS as most of us have run out since we try to keep the tank close to empty).

You will even see some that are late to the grid retorqueing their wheels in their helmet & Hans device, because they forgot.

And I have a torque wrench that is JUST for my wheels. It is set at 92 lbs

[humfrz]

Well, @C4RBON and @MuseChaser and others, I will confess that ol humfrz must have gotten stuck back in the 50s ....again .....

After some research, I will agree, that these new fangled alloy wheels should be torqued again after a few miles of driving.

So, I'm going to finish my piece of humble pie, go out and find my old torque wrench and check the wheels on my walker ...... then take a nap .....


humfrz

[johan]

I always use a normal socket wrench to remove, and a torque wrench to install.

Why wouldn't you?

Lazy? Bullshit.

Wheel is your only connection to the road. You'd better care about its connection to your car.

Torque the shit out of them to compensate? No.

These lugs are so fragile, you have to treat them like little fairy princesses so they don't deform their threads and damage the studs. I yelled at my tuner for using an impact to remove them when putting the car on the dyno one too many times - lug -> ruined.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well, @C4RBON and @MuseChaser and others, I will confess that ol humfrz must have gotten stuck back in the 50s ....again .....

After some research, I will agree, that these new fangled alloy wheels should be torqued again after a few miles of driving.

So, I'm going to finish my piece of humble pie, go out and find my old torque wrench and check the wheels on my walker ...... then take a nap .....


humfrz

"new fangled alloy wheel" Like the ones in my avatar on my vintage race car?

Now that I think about it - My racecar has lug centric wheels with the ball (spherical) seats.
I would imagine that contributes a lot to the lugs working loose.
As the wheels flex, the nature of the spherical seats might just make them more likely to loosen up.
Ours are conical style, so maybe less prone to loosen?

Also, at the track, the wheels are on/off the car frequently, so more cases where they havent "settled" yet.

[menikmati]

I use Tekton 3/8" and 1/2" torque wrenches from Amazon, no problems.

https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-24335-...+torque+wrench

https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-24330-...+torque+wrench