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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


View Poll Results: How would you rate the design of the 2nd gen? 1 lowest & 5 highest
1 19 7.20%
2 25 9.47%
3 62 23.48%
4 104 39.39%
5 54 20.45%
Voters: 264. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-03-2020, 03:25 PM   #1023
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Itll be here before you know it.
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:35 PM   #1024
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Not enough of them and not enough cash. There is little money to be made off the enthusiasts on a low profit niche car (including the Supra). They just hope that we will all switch to a nice Camry or Corolla when we grow up.
Actually, I am sure that Toyota would love all its customers to buy USD 50k Supras instead of USD 20-30k Corollas or Camrys. The profit margin per car is probably better - maybe. But of course, they know their sports cars will never be large volume cars, so they are better off making $500 per Corolla if they can sell a million Corollas than making $2000 per Supra if they can only sell 10,000 Supras.

It’s the low volumes that make it hard for ‘affordable’ sports cars to be highly profitable. Individual margin per car is probably no worse, and often a lot better, than their mainstream models. Even at the top end of the market, the exotic sports car manufacturers like Porsche, Jaguar, Lamborghini, and now Ferrari, who have very healthy margins baked into every car, felt the need to diversify and start selling ‘super SUVs’ to help pad out their profit columns, simply because the volume is in SUVs rather than sports cars.

It’s sad, and it means sports cars are always an endangered species nowadays, especially from the mainstream brands whose real volume is SUVs, trucks, utes, vans etc. Even sedans and hatchbacks, staples of regular car design, are becoming increasingly niche products as SUVs and dual cab utes/trucks take over as the default car type. Nothing can stop them taking over our roads, it seems!
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:45 PM   #1025
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Folks love to knock the Corolla
Yeah, not sure why. It’s reliable, economical and safe transportation for normal people who just need an affordable ‘car’ for transport and who don’t want to deal with the headaches enthusiasts into unusual, exotic or highly modified cars have to deal with. A Corolla is a car you can afford to own and run for decades with relatively low running costs and routine maintenance... IOW, a far smarter financial choice compared to the often unreliable and expensive enthusiast cars many of us choose to make our passion.
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:56 PM   #1026
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Actually, I am sure that Toyota would love all its customers to buy USD 50k Supras instead of USD 20-30k Corollas or Camrys. The profit margin per car is probably better - maybe. But of course, they know their sports cars will never be large volume cars, so they are better off making $500 per Corolla if they can sell a million Corollas than making $2000 per Supra if they can only sell 10,000 Supras.

It’s the low volumes that make it hard for ‘affordable’ sports cars to be highly profitable. Individual margin per car is probably no worse, and often a lot better, than their mainstream models. Even at the top end of the market, the exotic sports car manufacturers like Porsche, Jaguar, Lamborghini, and now Ferrari, who have very healthy margins baked into every car, felt the need to diversify and start selling ‘super SUVs’ to help pad out their profit columns, simply because the volume is in SUVs rather than sports cars.

It’s sad, and it means sports cars are always an endangered species nowadays, especially from the mainstream brands whose real volume is SUVs, trucks, utes, vans etc. Even sedans and hatchbacks, staples of regular car design, are becoming increasingly niche products as SUVs and dual cab utes/trucks take over as the default car type. Nothing can stop them taking over our roads, it seems!
They want you to buy BOTH was what I was saying.
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:57 PM   #1027
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Folks love to knock the Corolla, but it’s a car that Toyota has pushed forward significantly in the last decade or so. My father had a 2009 XRS (the “sporty” Corolla with firmer shocks, springs etc.), and it was a handling dog compared to even a 2020 non-sport edition I recently had as a rental, a car which felt far more upscale and (dare I say it) European in its blend of ride and handling characteristics.
Who was knocking the Corolla? It is their bread and butter car.
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:21 PM   #1028
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It’s sad, and it means sports cars are always an endangered species nowadays, especially from the mainstream brands whose real volume is SUVs, trucks, utes, vans etc. Even sedans and hatchbacks, staples of regular car design, are becoming increasingly niche products as SUVs and dual cab utes/trucks take over as the default car type. Nothing can stop them taking over our roads, it seems!
And sporty models compete on sheer power, at the expense of weight, agility and driver engagement. This is especially true of EVs, which is a sad prospect for driving enthusiasts. EVs bring some great advantages for us - very low center of gravity, flexible packaging allowing better suspension geometries and great power delivery. But nobody is making small lightweight fun EVs yet, and I fear they never will.
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:29 PM   #1029
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Yeah January will be here before we know it, and the GR86 will debut. IIRC, it's supposed to debut at the TAS in January right?

Anway, I'm more anxious about the pricing to see what's going to be offered, I'm still holding out hope that the PP will be offered despite all signs indicating that it won't be. Dumb move imo on their part, unless they're cooking up something special.
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:39 PM   #1030
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^After financing charges etc they make a lot more than 500 bucks on a Corolla.
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Old 12-03-2020, 05:30 PM   #1031
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Not enough of them and not enough cash. There is little money to be made off the enthusiasts on a low profit niche car (including the Supra). They just hope that we will all switch to a nice Camry or Corolla when we grow up.

While growing up, had both a Corolla & Camry. Want an 86 to re-live my childhood!



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Actually, I am sure that Toyota would love all its customers to buy USD 50k Supras instead of USD 20-30k Corollas or Camrys. The profit margin per car is probably better - maybe. But of course, they know their sports cars will never be large volume cars, so they are better off making $500 per Corolla if they can sell a million Corollas than making $2000 per Supra if they can only sell 10,000 Supras.

Actually, the real profit margins are in the Service Departments. I'm not saying that there's no profit in sales but a good service manager makes way more than a good car salesman.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:04 PM   #1032
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While growing up, had both a Corolla & Camry. Want an 86 to re-live my childhood!






Actually, the real profit margins are in the Service Departments. I'm not saying that there's no profit in sales but a good service manager makes way more than a good car salesman.
The real, real, profit is in the financing and extras such as load insurance, extended warranties, protection packages, etc. A good finance manager will blow the total pay of a service manager away.
It is what my wife has done for 25 years so I know this as a fact.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:22 PM   #1033
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Apparently it'll find its way into the latest Gymkhana, and based on this clip it sounds pretty good (to me anyway):

https://twitter.com/subaru_usa/statu...37586334298112
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:22 PM   #1034
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Who was knocking the Corolla? It is their bread and butter car.
That was a general comment on car talk, not directed at anyone here.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:29 PM   #1035
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Apparently it'll find its way into the latest Gymkhana, and based on this clip it sounds pretty good (to me anyway):

https://twitter.com/subaru_usa/statu...37586334298112
I wonder if most of what we're hearing there is the sound from the track car seen in the second half of that video, when it comes into the shot the sound doesn't really change... hope that is not the case as it sounds great.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:34 PM   #1036
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That was a general comment on car talk, not directed at anyone here.
Ahhhh well they are dumb then. Without the Corolla there would be no other Toyota cars. It is the one that pays the bills. Well the Camry pitch's in for rent every once in a while.
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