Be careful at the pump with E15

[Thunderchicken]

Let me start of with since our cars aren't designed to burn E15 and states not to put it in our cars to begin with. Here a a good read.

Federal officials mandating minimum four-gallon gasoline purchase from ethanol-blend pumps
8
08
2012
PICKERINGTON, OH – August 8, 2012 – (Motor Sports Newswire) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency will require all consumers to buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain gas pumps after the new E15 ethanol-gasoline blend is introduced into the market, the American Motorcyclist Association reports.

The EPA revealed the requirement to the AMA in a letter dated Aug. 1, responding to AMA concerns that E15 — a gasoline formulation that contains up to 15 percent ethanol by volume — could be put in motorcycle and ATV gas tanks inadvertently when consumers use blender pumps. A blender pump dispenses different fuel blends through the same hose, and the vast majority of motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles in use today aren’t designed to operate on E15 fuel.

“With E15 gasoline, our members who make a concerted effort to fuel their motorcycles or ATVs with E10-or-less gasoline may be unknowingly refueling with residual fuel left in the hose,” Wayne Allard, AMA vice president for government relations, wrote in a June 20 letter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson.

“Unlike an automobile or SUV that has a large fuel tank, the residual fuel left in a fueling hose could be detrimental to the performance of motorcycle or ATV engines due to the small size of their fuel tanks and the higher concentration of ethanol that would, therefore, be present in the fuel,” Allard wrote.

“In addition, the use of E15 will lower fuel efficiency and possibly cause premature engine failure,” he wrote. “Use of E15 fuel voids many manufacturer warranties. In off-road engines, the effects can even be dangerous for users.”

Byron Bunker of the EPA National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory responded to the AMA on behalf of Jackson.

“EPA requires that retail stations that own or operate blender pumps either dispense E15 from a dedicated hose and nozzle if able or, in the case of E15 and E10 being dispensed from the same hose, require that at least four gallons of fuel be purchased to prevent vehicles and engines with smaller fuel tanks from being exposed to gasoline-ethanol blended fuels containing greater than 10 volume percent ethanol,” Bunker wrote.

“Additionally, EPA is requiring that retail stations that offer E10 and E15 from the same hose and nozzle use additional labeling to inform consumers about the minimum purchase requirement,” Bunker wrote.

“Since motorcyclists and ATV users, as you suggest, have relatively small fuel tanks, they should pay careful attention to the labeling of blender pumps to ensure that an appropriate fuel is chosen, in this case E10 or E0,” he wrote.

Another problem with the new EPA policy, Allard said, is that not all motorcycle and ATV gas tanks hold four or more gallons.

“Not only do we find it unacceptable for the EPA to mandate that everyone — including our members — buy minimum amounts of gas, but the EPA answer simply won’t work because of the sizes of many motorcycle and ATV gas tanks and the fact that off-highway riders take containers of gas with them on their trips, and most times those containers are much smaller than four gallons,” Allard said.

“The EPA needs to come up with a better solution,” he said. “The EPA also needs to back an independent study to determine whether E15 is safe for motorcycle and ATV engines.”

The AMA has repeatedly expressed concerns to government officials and federal lawmakers about possible damage to motorcycle and ATV engines caused by the inadvertent use of E15 when the new fuel becomes widely available, and has asked that motorcycles and ATVs be part of any scientific study into the effects of E15.

Ethanol is essentially grain alcohol produced from crops such as corn that is mixed with gasoline to produce an ethanol-gasoline blend motor fuel. In October 2010, the EPA approved the use of E15 in model year 2007 and newer light-duty vehicles (cars, light-duty trucks and medium-duty passenger vehicles). Then, in January 2011, the EPA added model year 2001-06 light-duty vehicles to the approved list.

No motorcycles or ATVs are currently on the list.

About the American Motorcyclist Association
Since 1924, the AMA has protected the future of motorcycling and promoted the motorcycle lifestyle. AMA members come from all walks of life, and they navigate many different routes on their journey to the same destination: freedom on two wheels. As the world’s largest motorcycling rights organization, the AMA advocates for motorcyclists’ interests in the halls of local, state and federal government, the committees of international governing organizations, and the court of public opinion. Through member clubs, promoters and partners, the AMA sanctions more motorsports competition and motorcycle recreational events than any other organization in the world. AMA members receive money-saving discounts from dozens of well-known suppliers of motorcycle services, gear and apparel, bike rental, transport, hotel stays and more. Through the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame, the AMA honors the heroes and the heritage of motorcycling for future generations. For more information, please visit

[coyote]

It never occurred to them to ride on to the next petrol station?

Some people live to whinge.

[ZDan]

It's a valid complaint, much more so than someone clear across the globe "whingeing" about "whingeing" (stupid british term for whining, can't you Aussie's come up with yer own word for it?).

Even E10 is stupid except for the corn industry and Monsanto. Bad for fuel economy, bad for the environment, bad idea period. E15, even worse (except for Monsanto et al...).

[Sleeperz]

With the drought in the USA and the corn crop going to be smaller. Production of ethanol from corn is under consideration to being stopped because of the high price of corn.

http://news.yahoo.com/livestock-farm...--finance.html

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

Ethanol is essentially grain alcohol produced from crops such as corn that is mixed with gasoline to produce an ethanol-gasoline blend motor fuel. In October 2010, the EPA approved the use of E15 in model year 2007 and newer light-duty vehicles (cars, light-duty trucks and medium-duty passenger vehicles). Then, in January 2011, the EPA added model year 2001-06 light-duty vehicles to the approved list.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

Let me start of with since our cars aren't designed to burn E15 and states not to put it in our cars to begin with. Here a a good read.

So what are you guys doing? Do you have a lot of ethanol-free stations in your area? We use Pure-Gas website to find stations. There's only a couple in the Nashville area. We've seen the havoc the E10 and E15 stuff does to fuel systems so we avoid it completely.

[Superhatch]

Lol...suggestion = mandate.

This article is silly.

[Allch Chcar]

E15 is going to be clearly labeled, unlike E10. So except for the derpy people who aren't paying attention, it shouldn't be a problem. Plus it's still very rare. We don't have 1% availability with E85 after 10+ years.

Certain states have had blender pumps for years. Blender pumps can dispense different % blends of Ethanol up to the maximum 85%.

Having seen various tests of fuel system components exposed to E85, Ethanol content is a non-issue, especially on a new car. I run E10 myself but I've been looking to run E85 and it'd be much more expensive to run it with prices so close to parity.

[Superhatch]

I travel all over the US for work and I have yet to see an E15 pump. I've seen E85, and E10, but no E15.

As noted earlier, now that the price of corn is going through the roof ethanol is basically dead. 2/3 ethanol plants in WI have shut down now that the new farm bill got rid of subsidies for corn, and that was before this summer.

[Nepenthe]

E10 causes some very noticeable driveability issues in my Ninja 250. Hard starting, rougher idle, shorter shelf life, and mileage dropped from the low 70s to the low 60s.

Two questions:

As a consumer, given the choice between E10 and E15, why would I choose E15?

How long before E15 is the only choice and E10 is gone? (E0 is already impossible to find here)

[Razz]

Hell!

there aren't any stations without E10
I use to get 43 mpg, now I get 36