Lotus Evija

[Irace86.2.0]

[Irace86.2.0]

Waiting for July the 6th. Maybe my future car will be announced.

[EAGLE5]

I get that people like the noises cars make. Sometimes even I do. I love a good V8 or V12. That said, if you're here, you drive a flat four fartbox. Electric is the future of cars, end stop. It's superior in almost every single way but noise, and noise is simply another side effect of ICE's shitty efficiency. BMW makes some of the best engines, and they require speakers backing up the engine noise. It's all a joke.

I especially appreciate that Tesla is using a smaller battery and putting it towards the rear. They could do an even smaller battery in RWD only on a cheaper platform and make something normal people might have a chance of buying.

The Model 3 P does 30-50 in 1.1 seconds. The 911 Turbo does the same in 2 seconds. Electric power is not just better, it's massively better. No comparison.

It's like somebody complaining that a gun sucks because it's silenced. Oh, sure, it's bigger bore, higher velocity, better ballistics in every single way, but it's silenced. Boring!

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

It's superior in almost every single way

Range, number of refuelling stations and refuelling times are not superior.

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

Electric is the future of cars, end stop.

What about hydrogen?

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Range, number of refueling stations and refueling times are not superior.

What about hydrogen?

As I said, superior in almost every way. Long distance travel is the only way the ICE is superior, and even that is only for now. Battery tech keeps improving, as do range, efficiency, and charger network reach. Tesla now as a 300+ mile @75mph vehicle. Equally important, anybody with a power plug only rarely has to charge elsewhere.

Hydrogen will be for long distance truckers, and that's about it. Batteries are superior for 99% of us already. Once you get used to plugging in at night and never having to use a gas station, it's hard to go back.

In that sense, electric is far superior in refueling times. I can plug in once a week, which takes 15 seconds, versus 10 minutes + the drive each way plus the dirty pump every 10 days or so.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

As I said, superior in almost every way. Long distance travel is the only way the ICE is superior, and even that is only for now. Battery tech keeps improving, as do range, efficiency, and charger network reach. Tesla now as a 300+ mile @75mph vehicle. Equally important, anybody with a power plug only rarely has to charge elsewhere.

Hydrogen will be for long distance truckers, and that's about it. Batteries are superior for 99% of us already. Once you get used to plugging in at night and never having to use a gas station, it's hard to go back.

In that sense, electric is far superior in refueling times. I can plug in once a week, which takes 15 seconds, versus 10 minutes + the drive each way plus the dirty pump every 10 days or so.

I mean, ICE is vastly superior in weight and for now price. I think both have their advantages, just right now electric is no where near attainable for the masses.

Personally, I won't be looking at electric until I see something with acceptable weight, price, and focused on performance while being reliable and having acceptable endurance.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Personally, I won't be looking at electric until I see something with acceptable weight,

I have no idea if it is theoretically possible to build a suitable lightweight battery.
Having said that it would seem for most manufacturers weight is no longer a consideration.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I have no idea if it is theoretically possible to build a suitable lightweight battery.
Having said that it would seem for most manufacturers weight is no longer a consideration.

I'm sure it could be. Just throw money at it until it works, but that will never happen.

You'd think weight would be a consideration on a "GREEN" vehicle..

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

You'd think weight would be a consideration on a "GREEN" vehicle..

At the risk of going awol/a little divergent I think the concept of green cars is a little misleading. That is, sure, the car is green once it is on the road but there is an energy cost in manufacturing said vehicle that is never mentioned in the adverts.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

At the risk of going awol/a little divergent I think the concept of green cars is a little misleading. That is, sure, the car is green once it is on the road but there is an energy cost in manufacturing said vehicle that is never mentioned in the adverts.

The marketing behind EVs is completely misleading, just like Teslas "full self driving". The people that don't know any better aren't going to try and know any better though.

Earth - 0
Billionaires - 1

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I get that people like the noises cars make. Sometimes even I do. I love a good V8 or V12.

LFA V10 for me!

There are three things I think need to be addressed for EVs in general, and electric sports cars in particular, to appeal to enthusiasts and soften the impact of the long demise of ICE cars.

1) weight - although the better EVs typically carry their weight really low thanks to increasing use of floor board batteries, they are still generally heavier than comparable ICE cars, especially at the affordable end of the market.

2) range - to a large extent at the moment this is tied to weight. For enough battery capacity to avoid range anxiety for those doing longer trips, you need larger and heavier batteries. Hopefully this continues to improve with lighter batteries and better regen and rapid charging.

3) sound - no getting around it, the sound of a (generally 6+ cylinder) engine with a tuned exhaust is part of the enjoyment of an ICE sports car. EV makers need to come up with something to fill the silence which is exciting without being cheesy. Some of the sounds played in EVs now are a bit too ‘Jetsons’.

That said, if you're here, you drive a flat four fartbox.

I’ll have you know I now drive a V6 fartbox after selling my H4 fartbox!

BMW makes some of the best engines, and they require speakers backing up the engine noise.

The fake engine noises are largely a result of the increasing strangulation of ICE engines with ever more restrictive emissions controls, as well as the increasing desire for better sound insulation to reduce NVH (which also reduces exhaust and engine noise making it into the cabin).

It's like somebody complaining that a gun sucks because it's silenced. Oh, sure, it's bigger bore, higher velocity, better ballistics in every single way, but it's silenced. Boring!

Part of the appeal of a sports car, especially a budget sports car like the Twins or the Miata, is the visceral feedback of the car, including the noises it makes. Speed alone does not make a sports car - you can make a giant SUV or even a pickup truck incredibly fast, much faster than a cheap ICE sports car - but it is not going to offer the same experience or be more fun necessarily. It depends on what appeals to you. Most people buying a Twin are seeking something other than straight speed. Sound is at least a part of owning a sports car. It’s why so many people’s first mod is often an exhaust.

Not denying the many environmental and performance benefits of going electric. But some things are being lost, too, including the sound of a nicely tuned ICE. We can rationalise it all we want, but the loss is real.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

At the risk of going awol/a little divergent I think the concept of green cars is a little misleading. That is, sure, the car is green once it is on the road but there is an energy cost in manufacturing said vehicle that is never mentioned in the adverts.

Generally, even accounting for full lifecycle emissions (from creation to recycling the decommissioned vehicle), EVs come out well ahead of ICEs. This is especially true if you can recharge with green energy as people in many European countries can. As places like America and Australia clean up our own energy grids, EVs will be even better in terms of total lifecycle emissions.

There are still issues with EVs, including issues with mining the rare elements and recycling expired batteries better. And fortifying the electricity grid to handle much more demand. But these things can be dealt with over time.

EVs are here to stay, at least until hydrogen cars become a mainstream thing, which may or may not happen for various reasons and technical challenges.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I have no idea if it is theoretically possible to build a suitable lightweight battery.

Anything is possible with enough time and R&D.

Having said that it would seem for most manufacturers weight is no longer a consideration.

Of course it is a consideration! Weight impacts both performance and range! Lighter cars can travel further for the same energy output. You can bet the EV makers want to keep improving battery efficiency in order to reduce overall weight and thus increase range.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Red-86

LFA V10 for me!

There are three things I think need to be addressed for EVs in general, and electric sports cars in particular, to appeal to enthusiasts and soften the impact of the long demise of ICE cars.

1) weight - although the better EVs typically carry their weight really low thanks to increasing use of floor board batteries, they are still generally heavier than comparable ICE cars, especially at the affordable end of the market.

2) range - to a large extent at the moment this is tied to weight. For enough battery capacity to avoid range anxiety for those doing longer trips, you need larger and heavier batteries. Hopefully this continues to improve with lighter batteries and better regen and rapid charging.

3) sound - no getting around it, the sound of a (generally 6+ cylinder) engine with a tuned exhaust is part of the enjoyment of an ICE sports car. EV makers need to come up with something to fill the silence which is exciting without being cheesy. Some of the sounds played in EVs now are a bit too ‘Jetsons’.

I’ll have you know I now drive a V6 fartbox after selling my H4 fartbox!

The fake engine noises are largely a result of the increasing strangulation of ICE engines with ever more restrictive emissions controls, as well as the increasing desire for better sound insulation to reduce NVH (which also reduces exhaust and engine noise making it into the cabin).

Part of the appeal of a sports car, especially a budget sports car like the Twins or the Miata, is the visceral feedback of the car, including the noises it makes. Speed alone does not make a sports car - you can make a giant SUV or even a pickup truck incredibly fast, much faster than a cheap ICE sports car - but it is not going to offer the same experience or be more fun necessarily. It depends on what appeals to you. Most people buying a Twin are seeking something other than straight speed. Sound is at least a part of owning a sports car. It’s why so many people’s first mod is often an exhaust.

Not denying the many environmental and performance benefits of going electric. But some things are being lost, too, including the sound of a nicely tuned ICE. We can rationalise it all we want, but the loss is real.

I would not throw an LFA out of bed.

The Taycan Turbo S Lightning Lap was 2:55.2. That's .1 second behind the LFA.

EVs are heavy, but the weight seems to matter little in terms of outright performance. Upcoming EV hypercars will destroy the LFA's time and likely those of every other car tested. The fastest vehicle ever at Pike's Peak is a VW EV. It's not even close.

Range is a marketing thing, for the most part. I take long car trips almost never. The Model Y can still get me from my house to my parents' house with one charge in the middle at 75mph. Just a leisurely meal as it charges. This is much nicer than the same 405 miles in an FRS. Believe me, I've done it. But then I only make that drive once every 2-3 years. Mainly I just drive 0 - 100 miles a day, and the EV is perfect for that. I can always rent a car for the 1 in 1000 days.

Sound is overrated. I never say to myself, "I know a car is better than a horse, but a car doesn't neigh like a proper horse. I'll really miss the neighing while in a car. And I want more tire and wind noise, too." Nay. It's just something the buff magazines have leapt upon as if it matters, which it doesn't.