is the front o2 sensor a wideband sensor?

[mad_sb]

So,

I've been reading the tech manuals etc looking for some info to replace the front 02 sensor with a wide-band (with narrow-band output aka lc-1). Pages 17 - 19 of the fa20 engine control systems SFI details doc... seems to indicate bank 1 sensor 1 (upstream 02 sensor) is a "Planar Type Wide Range Air Fuel Ratio Sensor"

According to the description:
"(4) As illustrated below, the conventional oxygen sensor is characterized by a sudden change in its
output voltage at the threshold of the stoichiometric air fuel ratio (14.7:1). In contrast, the air
fuel ratio sensor data is approximately proportionate to the existing air fuel ratio. The air fuel
ratio sensor converts the oxygen density to current and sends it to the ECM. As a result, the
detection precision of the air fuel ratio has been improved. The air fuel ratio sensor data can be
viewed using a Techstream."

So, it sounds like the upstream sensor is wideband and the downstream sensor is narrow band.

Am i missing something? Are there any logging tools (EcuTek maybee) that can log the factory wide range sensor??

[trueno86power]

The ECUTek read directly and A/F value ( Ex: 14.7 12.3 etc.. ) not an 0-1 voltage. But I don't know if this is an interpretation of the ECU or it's the real data!

If it's a real wideband sensor, we could do a T-Harness to plug in a wideband gauge! Theirs is not many type of wideband sensor, in fact I've only seen one made by Bosch on aftermarket wideband and on OEM application.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by trueno86power

The ECUTek read directly and A/F value ( Ex: 14.7 12.3 etc.. ) not an 0-1 voltage. But I don't know if this is an interpretation of the ECU or it's the real data!

If it's a real wideband sensor, we could do a T-Harness to plug in a wideband gauge! Theirs is not many type of wideband sensor, in fact I've only seen one made by Bosch on aftermarket wideband and on OEM application.

Well, the response curve does not look as linear as a traditional wide-band. Ill dig up a pic form the manual.

[arghx7]

It is a Denso limiting-current type wideband sensor (as opposed to the pump-cell & reference cell type for Bosch sensors). I'm not sure what model it is, but considering this is still a very new car it's probably one of their latest ones (Plus 5.1, etc). Over the years wideband sensors have improved in accuracy and lightoff time, mostly for emissions purposes. See attached information.



Based on my experience, the Bosch sensors (LSU 4.2, 4.9 etc) are slightly more accurate at the rich end of the spectrum BUT to some extent it depends on how smart the controller and heater are, the placement of the sensor, etc. The two types of sensors (Denso vs Bosch) work on a little bit different principles.

[mad_sb]

here is the graph from the manual:

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by arghx7

It is a Denso limiting-current type wideband sensor (as opposed to the pump-cell & reference cell type for Bosch sensors). I'm not sure what model it is, but considering this is still a very new car it's probably one of their latest ones (Plus 5.1, etc). Over the years wideband sensors have improved in accuracy and lightoff time, mostly for emissions purposes. See attached information.

....
Based on my experience, the Bosch sensors (LSU 4.2, 4.9 etc) are slightly more accurate at the rich end of the spectrum BUT to some extent it depends on how smart the controller and heater are, the placement of the sensor, etc. The two types of sensors (Denso vs Bosch) work on a little bit different principles.

Awesome info man!

So it looks like the range is 2.2 to 4.2 volts and 11:1 to 19:1 or there abouts... hmm that differs from what you posted but i think i found the sensor modle somewhere so I'll see if if i can find an output table.. if so we may be able to get the sensor voltage from OBD-II data... or even a lamda value... one of my scan tools was able to find a pid for lambda but i thought it was a fluke.... now i am thinking otherwise

[mad_sb]

So just got back from getting my first alignment done and played around with my scanner.. you can get the lamda reading via can protocol as well as sensor output voltage. I'm going to do some more logging in the next couple of days. With Innovate (OT-1) you can create a custom lookup table so I should be able to create a lookup to covert voltage to ARF and or lamda to AFR.... Im so used to looking at ARF numbers lamda makes my head hurt lol.

[mad_sb]

Looks like the OBD-II data has a range of .82 - 1.35 lamda so 12.1 - 20.0 AFR... that is enough range for NA tuning but for boosted tuning I would want more range on the rich side.

Not sure if ecutek reports a wider range than that.. can anyone confirm the range ecutek logs?

[d1ck]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Looks like the OBD-II data has a range of .82 - 1.35 lamda so 12.1 - 20.0 AFR... that is enough range for NA tuning but for boosted tuning I would want more range on the rich side.

Not sure if ecutek reports a wider range than that.. can anyone confirm the range ecutek logs?

I'll confirm this, I got the same range with torque and my obd II bt dongle.

[kmbkk]

I talked with my tuner today and he said EcuTek doesn't show less than 12.1.

[King Tut]

Yep. If tuning a boosted application you will definitely want a wideband to know how far under 12.1 you are possibly going.

[swift996]

Are there any wide-band kits for our cars?

I can't read lower than 12.164 and my car is running rich.

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by kmbkk

I talked with my tuner today and he said EcuTek doesn't show less than 12.1.

Unless we recalibrate for it

We can get it down to .75 lambda now on the latest tune version (as of 3/2013), had to for FI and E85 testing. Works very well. Though not super precise it is a good guide to get a relative idea.

[SuiSid3l]

Would it be best then to just get a wideband installed and tie it into ecutek?

I'm going the FI/e85 route and I wanna make sure the data logging is thorough. That and I was planning on installing an innovate wideband for my a/f gauges anyway.