JUN GT Intake Manifold - It's finally here!

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Lol, not what I was getting at, but I am glad you found something to give you purpose today.

Thought it might help clarify the context for you.
Not saying what you said specifically is wrong by any means. Just taking what I said out of context.

Yes, thank you for giving my day purpose and meaning.

[prandelia]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

bro. When you race in a series that is governed by hp/wt ratio, torque becomes a real factor. It's not just about how much hp you have, it's also about using the torque you have on the few, slower corners that lead onto a straight to help give you valuable track position, so that once you are at speed in the 5000-8000 range your HP can really go to work for you. There are plenty of peaky power curves that got ditched last year for torque this year. So pretty dynos are great until you get on track and see what the car really does.

I don't expect anybody to understand that isn't racing in a highly competitive field where literally every little bit counts. I'm literally racing against detuned cars with the same peak power (or hp/wt ratio), but their dyno curve is flat from 5500-8500 all the way across with their peak HP. Or other cars with 180-200ft/lbs from 3000 RPM, so yeah, torque matters. My flat, relatively high torque curve (for a 2.0L) is a huge contributing factor to me being competitive. That's one thing this motor actually does right.

That comment you cherry picked was specifically regarding the stupid carbon/aluminum driveshafts that are not applicable for race cars (which every racer knows) because the RPM's are too high and the car will vibrate itself to death. For stoplight heroes, or auto-x, it's fine, but not for anybody road racing that cares about their drivetrain.

Regardless, as with all my posts, it's just to provide the community with more information, so they too can make informed decisions. Forums, for me, are a resource, and honestly nothing more. I don't post so people can praise me, or bust my balls. I do it so others can see what I've done and the information is out there for somebody else.

I'll post up my further findings after the next dyno session. After that, I just need to put it on track and see how it really stacks up against my competitors because that's the real test.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by prandelia

bro. When you race in a series that is governed by hp/wt ratio, torque becomes a real factor. It's not just about how much hp you have, it's also about using the torque you have on the few, slower corners that lead onto a straight to help give you valuable track position, so that once you are at speed in the 5000-8000 range your HP can really go to work for you. There are plenty of peaky power curves that got ditched last year for torque this year. So pretty dynos are great until you get on track and see what the car really does.

I don't expect anybody to understand that isn't racing in a highly competitive field where literally every little bit counts. I'm literally racing against detuned cars with the same peak power (or hp/wt ratio), but their dyno curve is flat from 5500-8500 all the way across with their peak HP. Or other cars with 180-200ft/lbs from 3000 RPM, so yeah, torque matters. My flat, relatively high torque curve (for a 2.0L) is a huge contributing factor to me being competitive. That's one thing this motor actually does right.

That comment you cherry picked was specifically regarding the stupid carbon/aluminum driveshafts that are not applicable for race cars (which every racer knows) because the RPM's are too high and the car will vibrate itself to death. For stoplight heroes, or auto-x, it's fine, but not for anybody road racing that cares about their drivetrain.

Regardless, as with all my posts, it's just to provide the community with more information, so they too can make informed decisions. Forums, for me, are a resource, and honestly nothing more. I don't post so people can praise me, or bust my balls. I do it so others can see what I've done and the information is out there for somebody else.

I'll post up my further findings after the next dyno session. After that, I just need to put it on track and see how it really stacks up against my competitors because that's the real test.

100% agreed exactly why the 250 is better than 350 for tracking applications.

Actually it was in regards to fluidampr. But statement still stands according to you yourself, you spend most of your time above 5k rpm where the 250 surpasses the 350, and would help to keep that torque flat even longer only complimenting what you’re reasoning for the JUN manifold was.

Yes you’ll lose a little torque below 4500 rpm, But if you’re statement that you made still stands “the vast majority my RPM's are 5000-7500” then losing a small amount of torque below that range to gain/flatten/extend the torque in that range would be beneficial no?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by prandelia

I would argue otherwise. The whole point is to avoid having to open this engine up because it's a nightmare to pull and work on, compared to say a K24 or something. Nothing is easy to do on it. So you might as well try everything you can within reason before you open it up. That's my plan at least, as it also requires the least amount of downtime.

It depends to whom you are talking. Not a nightmare if you have an experienced Subaru mechanic. They are used pulling and working on boxer engines for decades. The sealant process is a bit tricky in these particular engines, but not a rocket-science if someone has done it already.

[prandelia]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

100% agreed exactly why the 250 is better than 350 for tracking applications.

Actually it was in regards to fluidampr. But statement still stands according to you yourself, you spend most of your time above 5k rpm where the 250 surpasses the 350, and would help to keep that torque flat even longer only complimenting what you’re reasoning for the JUN manifold was.

Yes you’ll lose a little torque below 4500 rpm, But if you’re statement that you made still stands “the vast majority my RPM's are 5000-7500” then losing a small amount of torque below that range to gain/flatten/extend the torque in that range would be beneficial no?

I'll post some dyno numbers

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by prandelia

bro. When you race in a series that is governed by hp/wt ratio, torque becomes a real factor. It's not just about how much hp you have, it's also about using the torque you have on the few, slower corners that lead onto a straight to help give you valuable track position, so that once you are at speed in the 5000-8000 range your HP can really go to work for you.

That is what I was getting at that he can't seem to grasp.

Really curious to hear how that 4.556 gear works with your 8k redline. I'm too scared to spin my 13' engine that hard after ejecting some rocker arms into low earth orbit already.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That is what I was getting at that he can't seem to grasp.

Really curious to hear how that 4.556 gear works with your 8k redline. I'm too scared to spin my 13' engine that hard after ejecting some rocker arms into low earth orbit already.

I’d love to see you’re track data showing the frequency of being at 100% throttle below 5k rpm.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

I’d love to see you’re track data showing the frequency of being at 100% throttle below 5k rpm.

Not relevant to my point

[ka-t_240]

Watching the C5 in this weekend's GLTC race, the Torque thing didn't really seem to lead to much of a gain coming out of the hole. But, I suppose that car is 3xxx lbs

[nikitopo]

Never saw any new dyno numbers. Is this engine still live with the 8000 rpm?