Questions about a MT

[official_george]

I've owned a MT Civic before, but for some reason I can't seem to find the sweet spot of my FR-S's. I also want to clear some stuff up about driving a stick:

1. Shifting into a gear - would it be better to step off the clutch quickly and at the same time rev high (which would jerk the car forward) than slowly releasing the clutch and slowly building up revs? Would the former damage the clutch? Would the latter burn out the clutch faster?

2. Shifting out of a gear into a higher one - I seem to be taking a bit more time than necessary to shift up. I feel that when I step on the clutch, the rev starts to fall quickly that I might be too low for that next gear. If I try to shift quickly and release the clutch early, I end up throttling hard midway in order to "catch up" (I have bad feet coordination) and then I would worry about burning out the clutch (I've read it's really bad to rev high while the clutch is halfway).

3. On rev matching - should I blip the throttle while I'm on the clutch AND in the next gear, or while I'm on the clutch and still in neutral?

4. I accidentally shifted to 2nd gear while going around 40mph. This was while I was test driving the car, so still in her break-in period, if such exists. How bad is this?

5. How bad for the engine and tranny is stalling?

[cgrey]

You sound like a novice to the world of MT.

Here's my advice.

Do not try to rev match anything. Do not try to rev anything up when upshifting, or down shifting, or match anything at all. Stop worrying about burning out your clutch. Just drive the car until you become competent with a manual transmission and worry about anything else later.

Your homework assignment is to learn how to operate the car with smooth shifts and clutch engagement. Pretend there's a cup of water on the dash and you don't want to spill it. As you improve search for the proper shift points and minimize your time spent between shifts. Do not rush.

Drive with the radio off and listen to your car.

For now here is your shifting process.


Stopped.
Clutch fully in.
1st gear.
Gas/clutch get rolling in first.
Drive in 1st gear.
Listen for when to shift.
Gas all the way off, clutch all the way in.
Shift.
Gas/clutch.
Drive in second.
Repeat.

[cgrey]

You're likely to think I'm dodging your questions but they've led me to believe you shouldn't be asking them yet. Nevertheless, I'll just go through them for you:

1. Shifting into a gear - would it be better to step off the clutch quickly and at the same time rev high (which would jerk the car forward) than slowly releasing the clutch and slowly building up revs? Would the former damage the clutch? Would the latter burn out the clutch faster?

No. Absolutely not. You should be able to release the clutch and engage the gas in a smooth, swift manner. Reduce the time spent between shifts by becoming more smooth and confident.

2. Shifting out of a gear into a higher one - I seem to be taking a bit more time than necessary to shift up. I feel that when I step on the clutch, the rev starts to fall quickly that I might be too low for that next gear. If I try to shift quickly and release the clutch early, I end up throttling hard midway in order to "catch up" (I have bad feet coordination) and then I would worry about burning out the clutch (I've read it's really bad to rev high while the clutch is halfway).

You do not have to stop the rpms from decreasing, or rev match, during an upshift. It doesn't matter if the rpm value falls to idle, although once proficient it will not.

3. On rev matching - should I blip the throttle while I'm on the clutch AND in the next gear, or while I'm on the clutch and still in neutral?

Rev matching will only complicate your driving right now. It is unnecessary and will only confuse you and lead to errors.

4. I accidentally shifted to 2nd gear while going around 40mph. This was while I was test driving the car, so still in her break-in period, if such exists. How bad is this?

Not bad. Don't do this at 90mph.

5. How bad for the engine and tranny is stalling?

Not bad.


Just make the process as simple as possible and work on making it as efficient as possible. In no time you'll be ready to tackle the more complicated stuff and when you do you'll have the basics mastered. Everyone goes through the same process.

[#87]

I think your problem is that civic have rev hang that you are used to.

Try to do everything more quickly and I bet you solve a lot of problems.

When I up shift I release clutch pretty quick. Downshift I try to rev match unless I am at first or second going real slow.

But take this with a grain of salt I'm not that good at MT

[FnFast]

I am in the same boat. A novice at best. Like previously stated, take it slow and learn the basics. When I first got my street bike, I did the same thing... very cautious at first and as I became more confident I would practice ONE thing at a time until I mastered each. Now After 4 years I can ride my bike properly (not that I am a racer, but I don't shift like these idiots). I have 35k miles and the Honda tech said my clutch felt great and was impressed it was a stock clutch.

[Mikem53]

I've been driving sticks since the 60's .. This car is a bit difficult to get smooth.. Only 500 miles on mine.. And I adjusted the clutch engagement point to make it grab a bit lower... That helps being able to engage more predictably for a smoother takeoff..
I'm coming from the world of V8's.. With torque down low.. U need to rev this puppy up so the rpms are still up there when you hit the next gear.. I always try to engage at low rpms from a stop so I don't ride the clutch.. It's harder to do in this car smoothly.. But it's getting better.
Be conscious of what u are doing.. With some practice .. You will get it..

[official_george]

Ok, let's say from a stop, I started moving on 1st gear, when is a good RPM to shift to 2nd? It seems if I let it above 3.5K, I'd get a jerk when I go 2nd.

[Enraged21]

Originally Posted by official_george

Ok, let's say from a stop, I started moving on 1st gear, when is a good RPM to shift to 2nd? It seems if I let it above 3.5K, I'd get a jerk when I go 2nd.

2nd gear is pretty hard to get into with these cars. I usually shift around 3k rpm between 10-15mph. When I stick it in 2nd, I take a little longer to roll off the clutch. It gives it a more smooth shift.

[df.dima]

Shifting 1 to 2 try going to second when you are at 3k, it should catch at 2k. It does take longer 1 to 2 and varies with what rpm you're shifting at, so figure it out.

[TheEradicator]

Listen to your engine and look at your rpm gauge. I know that is overly simplified, but start with that basic understanding and build from there. I came from driving a 91' GMC Sonoman MT to this car.... It took me about 60 miles of lower gear shifting to feel the car out. As long as you understand how a MT works then use your senses to drive your car. Once you've had enough time smoothly shifting your car you will develop muscle memory and a feel for the car. This is what makes driving these MT cars fun since you know not just anybody can get in your car and drive it properly, it has to be earned.

[Sambo FRS]

Originally Posted by TheEradicator

Listen to your engine and look at your rpm gauge. I know that is overly simplified, but start with that basic understanding and build from there. I came from driving a 91' GMC Sonoman MT to this car.... It took me about 60 miles of lower gear shifting to feel the car out. As long as you understand how a MT works then use your senses to drive your car. Once you've had enough time smoothly shifting your car you will develop muscle memory and a feel for the car. This is what makes driving these MT cars fun since you know not just anybody can get in your car and drive it properly, it has to be earned.

This right here. I picked up my FRS yesterday, and its been a good 4 or 5 years since I've last driven MT, but its all about listening/feeling the car, and developing that muscle memory.

Just from yesterday to today my shifting has drastically improved, and I think its purely because my left leg has gotten right back in the habit of operating smoothly in conjunction with my right leg.

Just keep at it, it will likely just be a natural progression for you until your totally comfortable with it in all situations.

[official_george]

I'm just afraid that if I let the clutch out and the throttle in slowly, that I'll burn out the clutch a lot faster than normal, hence why I prefer to quickly release the clutch and accept the jerk.

[dirtbike250x]

Since your questions seem to have been replied to I simply offer my advice.

This is my first MT car, so my experience is minimal, but I do understand what is going on when using the clutch and shifting through the gears. When I was new at it I did slip the clutch more than I would have liked because my main goal was trying to get smooth with it. The stock engagement point is to far up for my preference so I adjusted it, and ever since it has greatly improved my driving, and greatly reduced unneeded slipping.

Also driving with no other distraction is important, hearing the engine is one of the main parts of becoming smooth, slowly release the clutch until you feel it grabbing and apply throttle. Soon you will instinctively know where the engagement point is, and your starts will happen sooner. It doesn't take much throttle to get this car moving, so once you find that engagement point things will smooth out. Just think slipping the clutch is bad for the clutch, allowing the car to be jerky is bad for the rest of the drive-train.

I'm actually still not consistanly smooth into 2nd, sometimes it works out and sometimes I rush it and it isn't as smooth. Also rev-matching is a more advanced skill, so get comfortable getting moving and them move onto that.

Hope our info helps, once you get it down it is so much fun to drive.

[jdcorbitt3]

The key to speeding things up outside is slowing down on the inside. I learned this at Bob Bondurant's school in the 80s. Treat the shift knob like an egg. Don't force it into gear. By slowing the shift down the syncros can do their job. As for rev matching, have someone who has been trained show you how to do it, or better yet, take a course like Skip Barber Bondurant or a HPDE like NASA's. on top of really learning how to truly handle a car, it's an absolute blast and worth the money.

John