12-01-2021, 08:49 PM | #57 | |
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12-01-2021, 09:07 PM | #58 | |
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So you are saying they under rated one car and over rated the Supra? Your very example shows my point. A 15HP loss is just not believable unless they grossly under rated the engine and think they are fooling anybody.
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12-01-2021, 09:15 PM | #59 | |
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All I have tried to say is that it SHOULD be faster than the first gen and in the overall scheme of things it will end up at about the same level as the first gen compared to other cars soon enough. Those minivans that seem to have kicked so many peoples ass over the last 8 years have been gaining power and speed. The second gen was not created in a vacuum. It amazes me that with a MINOR bump in power it is all of a sudden what everybody wanted. It is a very good improvement but did not suddenly become a supercar!
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12-01-2021, 09:19 PM | #60 |
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Car & Driver Comparison Test Review: Veloster N vs. GTI vs. BRZ vs. GR86
The 2.0 Supra also puts down ~245 whp on other dyno sheets. BMW is known for under-rating their cars, I’d be surprised the 2.0 Supra wouldn’t be, especially since the 3.0 is.
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12-01-2021, 09:23 PM | #61 |
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12-01-2021, 09:23 PM | #62 |
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So which one is right? Both? Neither? Only the ones you want to believe?
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12-01-2021, 09:54 PM | #63 |
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12-02-2021, 01:00 AM | #64 |
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Aero is supposed to be a bit better with the front fender vents. The automatic had a top speed of 210 km/h and now has 216 km/h. When they apply limiters they usually make them in rounded numbers (e.g., 210, 220, 250...). Besides top speed is again different between the manual and automatic cause of the different gearing. If they had a limiter it would make sense to have the same top speed.
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12-02-2021, 02:38 AM | #65 | ||
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Meanwhile we have both the new BRZ and GR86 hitting 101mph in the 1/4 here: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-gti-compared/ Where the '17 hit 95mph here: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ru-brz-review/ 95mph is the fastest I've seen for the 1st-gen from Car and Driver. Here they hit 94mph with an '20 86: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/ Quote:
There are multiple possibilities including: Could have "found" some more power in the tune while meeting all regs after they'd gone public with 228hp. Might not want to step on 2.0 Supra or WRX toes. Any number of other possible reasons. Tcoat strictly believes "factory" numbers. When real-world test data doesn't back those up, he doesn't understand what's happening: The new car is accelerating significantly more quickly vs. the old one than 228hp vs. 205hp suggests. Part of that is down to a more filled-in power curve, but in any case, it's acting a lot more like it has over 240hp rather than 228hp. Dyno results *seem* to back this up. And making max power at the same rpm as last-gen suggests that power should roughly scale up with displacement, or +20% rather than +11%. In the end, it's just a simple fact that these cars are accelerating notably quicker than expected. So, good news... |
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12-02-2021, 03:15 AM | #66 |
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I think the improvement on the torque curve and delivery is what made reviewers like the second gen more. If the first gens had the same torque delivery i'm sure there would be less complainers even without the bump in hp
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12-02-2021, 06:08 AM | #67 | |
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I don't believe either in a conspiracy theory about keeping GR86 lower and to not step on 2.0 Supra or WRX toes. Toyota doesn't care if it sells a Supra or a GR86. Same about Subaru if it sells a WRX or a BRZ. |
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12-02-2021, 08:19 AM | #68 | ||
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12-02-2021, 09:23 AM | #69 |
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12-02-2021, 12:03 PM | #70 |
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Manufacturers of anything are aware that they may have sales erosion of existing products when they introduce different models in a line up. The goal is to differentiate the products enough that this doesn't happen. You really need to understand this.
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