Official Formula 1 thread

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Alternate theory. Hamilton understeered into Verstappen on purpose. Fight me.

Note the jerk he gave the wheel seen in the onboard shot.

Keep in mind this is the guy who intentionally slowed down on purpose to try to get Rosburg into an incident at COTA.

I looked at his steering to see if he was understeering and didn’t see that. It does look like he was a little too hot in for the narrow line he was on but is also lap one and tires are not up to temp and pressure yet. Even if he did make it down to apex I think Max still would have hit him. The more I look at it, the more it looks like Max just expected him to back out of the move and concede the corner to him. Ham wasn’t going to give him an inch and given the championship standings, I am not surprised.

Also, give how fast Copse is, I don’t think that is a corner you try to wreak someone. It is as likely to go just as bad for you.


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[x808drifter]

Both look pretty even going into that turn.
Hamilton is also clearly off throttle and slowing before they start to turn in.
Max knew Hamilton was right next to him and nearly even going into the turn.

I've watched bot views frame by frame.
Both Max shouldn't have cut across so tightly and squeezed Hamilton to the inside considering their speeds.
I would even say Max had 0 intention of leaving a car width for Hamilton through that turn.
The overhead and POV shots for MAX pre impact show his line was going to nearly touch the stripes had they not touched.

Hamilton needed to slow a bit more to hug the stripes on the apex.
Like he did when he passed Leclerc on the same turn.

Like was said in the broadcast.
Both could have done more.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by x808drifter

Both look pretty even going into that turn.
Hamilton is also clearly off throttle and slowing before they start to turn in.
Max knew Hamilton was right next to him and nearly even going into the turn.

I've watched bot views frame by frame.
Both Max shouldn't have cut across so tightly and squeezed Hamilton to the inside considering their speeds.
I would even say Max had 0 intention of leaving a car width for Hamilton through that turn.
The overhead and POV shots for MAX pre impact show his line was going to nearly touch the stripes had they not touched.

Hamilton needed to slow a bit more to hug the stripes on the apex.
Like he did when he passed Leclerc on the same turn.

Like was said in the broadcast.
Both could have done more.

Iirc, at no point does Lewis show up in Max's onboard, but at no point does Max fully leave Lewis's onboard shot. Max must therefore been ahead by some amount entering the corner.

Max didn't squeeze Hamilton, there was plenty of room at the apex. Hamilton was in the middle of the track at the apex. That is not the racing line.

[Capt Spaulding]

I watched the incident a number of times from a number of different angles. I keep coming back to a couple of things.

There was now way, at that speed, Lewis was going to make that corner on that line. Once he committed to the inside, his trajectory was going to take him through Verstappen. Despite his protests to the contrary, Lewis was never "alongside Max," And, he had close to a meter on the inside, but apparently couldn't use it.

Next, Lewis is, IMO, not out there to wreck anybody. He is immensely talented, but has occasional lapses in judgement. Sometimes commits to things even he can't pull off. Even people on this level sometimes try things that their talent and physics won't permit. He tried similar moves twice on Alex Albon last season with similar results - Albon spinning off the track. Lewis's was deemed responsible for both incidents.

Now that doesn't preclude the racing incident conclusion. Racing involves getting on a track and driving at high (to blinding) speeds with others. No one's judgement and talent are infinite. Sometimes our "egos write checks our bodies can't cash."

Other observations; it was nice to see Danny Ric might be getting more comfortable in the McLaren. Alonso's first half lap in the sprint was astonishing. His ability to turn a 500 meter straight into a 700 meter straight by weaving all over the place on Sunday was less impressive. Hated to see Seb spin off and GR fade back, but it's good to see Williams making progress. Lance Stroll has become a much better racing driver than I ever predicted. I'm glad to be wrong about him. And the Ferraris are beginning to show signs of being Ferraris. Leclerc drove a very good race. I was certain he'd be in second at the exit of Abbey on the restart. it took 50 more laps. Fun to watch.

[reni]

After many years of watching motorsports, that was the most appalling display of poor taste I have ever witnessed. I mean, a driver shoves his rival off and literally puts him into the hospital, and then celebrates like that after the race? Completely disgusting.

That and the typical bizarre luck plot armor of everyone braking down or having a bad pit stop so Hamilton could cruise to another easily victory. It would have been strangely satisfying to watch LeChuck win after all the Max vs Hamilton hype buildup.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by reni

After many years of watching motorsports, that was the most appalling display of poor taste I have ever witnessed. I mean, a driver shoves his rival off and literally puts him into the hospital, and then celebrates like that after the race? Completely disgusting.

That and the typical bizarre luck plot armor of everyone braking down or having a bad pit stop so Hamilton could cruise to another easily victory. It would have been strangely satisfying to watch LeChuck win after all the Max vs Hamilton hype buildup.

Yep.

[Capt Spaulding]

A more appropriate penalty for Hamilton would have been a 20 sec stop and go.

[NoHaveMSG]

I must be desensitized from all the NASCAR I watch.


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[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

A more appropriate penalty for Hamilton would have been a 20 sec stop and go.

Black flag would have been more appropriate IMO. But they aren't going to do that with Hamilton at Silverstone.

The 10 second penalty is a cop-out of stewards that didn't want to make a decision either way. Hamilton wasn't upset by it because he already knew he deserved a penalty, and that was just a slap on the wrist.

[Martinius]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Max return the favor at a race where he needs a Hamilton DNF to become a Champion.

[TommyW]

I’m not a Hamilton fan. He came in too hot, missed the apex and it was Max’s corner anyway. Look at his line after the contact. There is no way he could have held his line after turn in.

It’s the passer’s responsibility to make a clean pass. Unless the passer is all the way alongside at turn in the passee doesn’t have to leave racing room however Max did leave room. Trying to get alongside after turn it is a very bad idea as the passee is looking through the corner and not in his mirrors.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Martinius

Wouldn't surprise me to see Max return the favor at a race where he needs a Hamilton DNF to become a Champion.

I wouldn't be surprised, either. I would be disappointed. If he does it, black flag him. I would prefer to see consequences proportional to the offense. Hamilton has done this to several people. Leclerc is prone to trying the same move. Stick your nose up the inside and see what happens. It is, IMO, bad racecraft. To stop them doing it, it needs to be made more costly. As Spuds said, 10 sec for Lewis is barely a slap on the wrist. Without Verstappen on track, Hamilton could, I think, easily gap the whole field by substantially more than that.

As good as Lewis is, he needs to make better decisions. I know this is easily said by armchair commentators, but I really think he's better than what happened yesterday.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

I wouldn't be surprised, either. I would be disappointed. If he does it, black flag him. I would prefer to see consequences proportional to the offense. Hamilton has done this to several people. Leclerc is prone to trying the same move. Stick your nose up the inside and see what happens. It is, IMO, bad racecraft. To stop them doing it, it needs to be made more costly. As Spuds said, 10 sec for Lewis is barely a slap on the wrist. Without Verstappen on track, Hamilton could, I think, easily gap the whole field by substantially more than that.

As good as Lewis is, he needs to make better decisions. I know this is easily said by armchair commentators, but I really think he's better than what happened yesterday.

His decisions keeps leading to championships though... It's not him that has to make better decisions.

To be fair, in the early years crashstappen did the same things, with similar results. He got better. Lewis just got bolder.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Martinius

Wouldn't surprise me to see Max return the favor at a race where he needs a Hamilton DNF to become a Champion.

He is certainly going to give no quarter when the roles are reversed.