follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > FT86CLUB Shared Forum > FR-S / BRZ vs....

FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-17-2020, 08:06 AM   #29
ROFL it's Waffle
The guy w/o an FRS or BRZ
 
ROFL it's Waffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: '23 GR86 Premium 6MT Halo White
Location: Planet Erf
Posts: 446
Thanks: 276
Thanked 399 Times in 215 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
https://www.cnet.com/news/2021-toyot...dition-reveal/


Anyone brave enough to buy the 2.0L Turbo 2021 Supra? I'm generally puzzled by Toyota's desire to opt for a 4 cyl version, even if it's "200 lbs lighter" than the I6 version. It's even more intriguing to think where the 2021 86 will be if the changing of powerplants is this dramatic in Toyota's sports car line up.


I'm not a numbers person though, I'm a driving enthusiast. I still think the 86 has the better bang for the buck (even though the A91 is getting a beefy hp update).
ROFL it's Waffle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ROFL it's Waffle For This Useful Post:
Tristor (02-20-2020)
Old 02-17-2020, 10:06 AM   #30
why?
Only happy when it rains.
 
why?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: series.blue
Location: Harnett county NC
Posts: 1,995
Thanks: 5,698
Thanked 1,263 Times in 749 Posts
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROFL it's Waffle View Post
https://www.cnet.com/news/2021-toyot...dition-reveal/


Anyone brave enough to buy the 2.0L Turbo 2021 Supra? I'm generally puzzled by Toyota's desire to opt for a 4 cyl version, even if it's "200 lbs lighter" than the I6 version. It's even more intriguing to think where the 2021 86 will be if the changing of powerplants is this dramatic in Toyota's sports car line up.


I'm not a numbers person though, I'm a driving enthusiast. I still think the 86 has the better bang for the buck (even though the A91 is getting a beefy hp update).

they basically took out as much tech as much as possible. Sounds like an engine swap special for shops with too much money.


If they make it come in at less than $40k it will be a hell of a lot better deal than the bigger one. I have no idea how anyone would spend over $50k for a Supra with the c8 standing at $60k.
why? is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to why? For This Useful Post:
ROFL it's Waffle (02-17-2020), Tristor (02-20-2020)
Old 02-17-2020, 10:29 AM   #31
ROFL it's Waffle
The guy w/o an FRS or BRZ
 
ROFL it's Waffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: '23 GR86 Premium 6MT Halo White
Location: Planet Erf
Posts: 446
Thanks: 276
Thanked 399 Times in 215 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
I have no idea how anyone would spend over $50k for a Supra with the c8 standing at $60k.
I'm deathly afraid of GM "reliability," but even I can't deny the value of a totally stock C8 (a budget 458).
ROFL it's Waffle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ROFL it's Waffle For This Useful Post:
why? (02-17-2020)
Old 02-17-2020, 10:48 AM   #32
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,577
Thanks: 1,373
Thanked 3,883 Times in 2,027 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROFL it's Waffle View Post
Anyone brave enough to buy the 2.0L Turbo 2021 Supra? I'm generally puzzled by Toyota's desire to opt for a 4 cyl version, even if it's "200 lbs lighter" than the I6 version. It's even more intriguing to think where the 2021 86 will be if the changing of powerplants is this dramatic in Toyota's sports car line up.
It's a no-brainer, that engine/platform combo already exists, why NOT sell it in the U.S.?

200 lb. lighter weight is a bigger deal to me than the more-horsepower version.
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post:
Tristor (02-20-2020)
Old 02-17-2020, 12:14 PM   #33
Rampage
Senior Member/Old Fanboi
 
Rampage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2000 2ZZ-GE MR2 Spyder HT
Location: Back home in Ohio now
Posts: 2,446
Thanks: 1,931
Thanked 2,014 Times in 915 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I had a 93 MkIV (also an 89 Turbo MkIII) and I never consider it a sports car. It remained stock because at the time I had kids to raise and not much hobby money. It was heavy, softly sprung, under tired and pushed the front end hard if you entered a corner too fast. The steering also felt a bit numb like some of the muscle cars I had owned. The stock power was good but not overly impressive.

I have a hell of a lot more fun in my son's 13 FR-S or my 00 Mr2 Spyder with the 2ZZ than I ever had in the Supra. As the OP said, the raw fun and lightness they present is just way more appealing to me.

I am pretty sure I would feel similarly about the A90 but I have not driven a new Supra and I do not even have a desire to do so. I just cannot get by the styling of the thing. Yes, I have seen a couple in person and did a walk around. Still do not like it. Maybe if I drove one it would win me over like the Spyder did. I did not like it either but the hard top and the performance won me over to the point that I can forgive it for being a bit homely. lol. But then you still have the cost of the thing and the Spyder would have to go if I got a Supra.....nah.

Good post comparing ownership of the 86 and Supra V though. I enjoyed the read.
__________________
So many modders have more cents than sense!
Rampage is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rampage For This Useful Post:
ROFL it's Waffle (02-20-2020), Tristor (02-20-2020), why? (02-17-2020)
Old 02-17-2020, 12:15 PM   #34
WolfpackS2k
Senior Member
 
WolfpackS2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: '12 C63 P31, '23 GRC
Location: NC
Posts: 3,199
Thanks: 2,934
Thanked 2,072 Times in 1,185 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
they basically took out as much tech as much as possible. Sounds like an engine swap special for shops with too much money.


If they make it come in at less than $40k it will be a hell of a lot better deal than the bigger one. I have no idea how anyone would spend over $50k for a Supra with the c8 standing at $60k.
I actually feel otherwise. The stripped out 4 banger Supra is (probably) still $40k? Horrible value IMO. Makes the straight 6 for $50k look way better. Not to mention the 6's resale value down the line will be way way better.
__________________
Current: 2023 GRC Circuit Edition, 2012 C63 AMG P31
Past: (2) 2000 MR2 Spyder, 2017 GTI Sport, 2006 Porsche Cayman S, Supercharged 2013 BRZ-L, 2007 Honda S2000, 1992 Integra GS-R
WolfpackS2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 12:22 PM   #35
Rampage
Senior Member/Old Fanboi
 
Rampage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2000 2ZZ-GE MR2 Spyder HT
Location: Back home in Ohio now
Posts: 2,446
Thanks: 1,931
Thanked 2,014 Times in 915 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I actually feel otherwise. The stripped out 4 banger Supra is (probably) still $40k? Horrible value IMO. Makes the straight 6 for $50k look way better. Not to mention the 6's resale value down the line will be way way better.
Ehhh, I do not agree or disagree but look at all the guys that have $40K in their 86 or BRZ to get just about the same level of performance that the 4 banger will give without the reliability and warranty that it brings. Just put a tune on the little Supra and a FA20 would be a ticking time bomb to match the performance. I do not think the $40K is that bad but for that price I would rather have a lightly used Cayman if I am going to buy a German engineered car.
__________________
So many modders have more cents than sense!
Rampage is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rampage For This Useful Post:
Tristor (02-20-2020), why? (02-17-2020)
Old 02-17-2020, 12:56 PM   #36
why?
Only happy when it rains.
 
why?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: series.blue
Location: Harnett county NC
Posts: 1,995
Thanks: 5,698
Thanked 1,263 Times in 749 Posts
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I actually feel otherwise. The stripped out 4 banger Supra is (probably) still $40k? Horrible value IMO. Makes the straight 6 for $50k look way better. Not to mention the 6's resale value down the line will be way way better.

The thing is that turbo 4 can easily be tuned to who knows what. I wouldn't be surprised if it could hit the same power of the six without changing out the turbo.
why? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 04:59 PM   #37
davesrave
Senior Member
 
davesrave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Drives: 2014 Boxster S; 2015 Macan S
Location: MA
Posts: 206
Thanks: 326
Thanked 233 Times in 63 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I actually feel otherwise. The stripped out 4 banger Supra is (probably) still $40k? Horrible value IMO. Makes the straight 6 for $50k look way better. Not to mention the 6's resale value down the line will be way way better.
A post by claimed insider A70TTR over on the SupraMKV forum states: "I think I have an email that says $42k". He's been pretty accurate in the past.
davesrave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 09:43 PM   #38
Rampage
Senior Member/Old Fanboi
 
Rampage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2000 2ZZ-GE MR2 Spyder HT
Location: Back home in Ohio now
Posts: 2,446
Thanks: 1,931
Thanked 2,014 Times in 915 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesrave View Post
A post by claimed insider A70TTR over on the SupraMKV forum states: "I think I have an email that says $42k". He's been pretty accurate in the past.
The cheapest new 2020 Supra around where I am at is just over $52K. That will probably jump a couple thousand for 2021 so I would say $42K MSRP sounds about right.
__________________
So many modders have more cents than sense!
Rampage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 01:37 AM   #39
Boccaccio
CAD monkey
 
Boccaccio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Drives: '15 GT86 Giallo - Supercharged
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 78
Thanks: 16
Thanked 66 Times in 36 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
The thing is that turbo 4 can easily be tuned to who knows what. I wouldn't be surprised if it could hit the same power of the six without changing out the turbo.
"just a stage 1 reflash" can net you around 300+ at the crank and 450+ Nm of torque.

Basically the same engine. Just for illustration:

https://www.br-performance.be/en-be/...19/11487-320i/


The B48 engine responds quite well to tuning.
Boccaccio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 08:24 AM   #40
WolfpackS2k
Senior Member
 
WolfpackS2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: '12 C63 P31, '23 GRC
Location: NC
Posts: 3,199
Thanks: 2,934
Thanked 2,072 Times in 1,185 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampage View Post
Ehhh, I do not agree or disagree but look at all the guys that have $40K in their 86 or BRZ to get just about the same level of performance that the 4 banger will give without the reliability and warranty that it brings. Just put a tune on the little Supra and a FA20 would be a ticking time bomb to match the performance. I do not think the $40K is that bad but for that price I would rather have a lightly used Cayman if I am going to buy a German engineered car.
You don't have to tell me that twice. See sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
The thing is that turbo 4 can easily be tuned to who knows what. I wouldn't be surprised if it could hit the same power of the six without changing out the turbo.
Quite aware of that. I just had my GTI reflashed for an 80 hp gain. But that car cost me nowhere close to $40k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampage View Post
The cheapest new 2020 Supra around where I am at is just over $52K. That will probably jump a couple thousand for 2021 so I would say $42K MSRP sounds about right.
They're dropping a bit I think. I saw 4 at a dealership in December and they were all just under $50k.
__________________
Current: 2023 GRC Circuit Edition, 2012 C63 AMG P31
Past: (2) 2000 MR2 Spyder, 2017 GTI Sport, 2006 Porsche Cayman S, Supercharged 2013 BRZ-L, 2007 Honda S2000, 1992 Integra GS-R
WolfpackS2k is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to WolfpackS2k For This Useful Post:
Tristor (02-20-2020), why? (02-18-2020)
Old 02-18-2020, 08:35 AM   #41
Rampage
Senior Member/Old Fanboi
 
Rampage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2000 2ZZ-GE MR2 Spyder HT
Location: Back home in Ohio now
Posts: 2,446
Thanks: 1,931
Thanked 2,014 Times in 915 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
They're dropping a bit I think. I saw 4 at a dealership in December and they were all just under $50k.
Maybe they are where you are at but I checked Autotrader.com 5 minutes before I made that post. The cheapest new ones around here (northern FL) were over $52 and the only one under $50K had 6K miles on it.
__________________
So many modders have more cents than sense!
Rampage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 09:41 AM   #42
ROFL it's Waffle
The guy w/o an FRS or BRZ
 
ROFL it's Waffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: '23 GR86 Premium 6MT Halo White
Location: Planet Erf
Posts: 446
Thanks: 276
Thanked 399 Times in 215 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boccaccio View Post
"just a stage 1 reflash" can net you around 300+ at the crank and 450+ Nm of torque.

Basically the same engine. Just for illustration:

https://www.br-performance.be/en-be/...19/11487-320i/


The B48 engine responds quite well to tuning.
Porsche has been doing this all along to the Cayman to fit a little too perfectly between the Boxster and 911. There is no doubt in my mind that all car companies are de-tuning their mid-range models to sell the higher-range models, even if they're equipped with similar engines. I mean (back to the numbers game), 2020 Supra 6 is "330 hp" and all of a sudden 2021 Supra 6 is "385 hp." I mean the 86 is a fine example of that, going from 200 to 205 hp lol.

There are two types of car people though. People willing to mod, and people not willing to mod. Modders don't really fall for the marketing gimmicks. If the platform is strong, we're happy. I work with a guy who has a 2019 STI, and his vision of upgrading is getting the STI s209 version, which are now retailing around $65k.

I look at the s209 and think: it has $8k of tasteless aftermarket mods (a fugly trunk spoiler) on a $35k car, a water hose to spray onto the intercooler to reduce temps by 10°F , and a measly 345 hp. Tack on $22k for exclusivity (I mean really, that's what it is), and you have a "factory spec race car with a warranty."

$3000 worth of exhaust mods including a pro-tune can net you 345 hp without trying on an STI.

But I digress. There are benefits to not modding, like enjoying what the car was designed to do. Man I love cars.
ROFL it's Waffle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ROFL it's Waffle For This Useful Post:
Tristor (02-20-2020), why? (02-18-2020)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
my perspective on the 'dip' perryair Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 42 02-20-2017 08:26 PM
HP In Perspective Tcoat Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 42 07-31-2014 03:15 PM
Titan Supra Competes at Texas Invitational - Supra is still competitive Video Titanmotorsports Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 0 05-20-2014 11:53 AM
86 vs. 2013 STI - a DD perspective. Jar FR-S / BRZ vs.... 22 07-10-2013 02:04 PM
A different perspective on price. Hanzo BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics 19 06-11-2012 09:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.