Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[vh_supra26]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g4S3_mH5ck[/ame]

[PabloN]

A lower CG than the GT86--that sounds promising...

[HKz]

eh what planet are you from? think for most people the displacement size and number of cylinders always affects a car's prestige especially if we're talking about a sports car.

Hard to say whether BMW wants the Supra to be a big seller because from the outside looking in, this project would appear to negatively affect their brand a little bit considering their own equipment now has an economy brand stamped on it. Plus, IIRC they are only planning on building 10 K per year whereas the 86 reached 100 K in total production in less than 3 years.

As for the twins, they'll still have their place and I''ll bet they will be comparatively more practical and a better daily driver due to the longer wheelbase...

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by ZDan

"Because it's always been that way" is never a good answer...
I love inline 6 for aesthetic reasons, but I4 = less weight and with engine c.g. further aft.

Having a 4-cylinder version does nothing to reduce or "de-halo" the 6-cylinder version. Not to me, anyway...

I dunno, I'm sure BMW will make more $$$ the more Toyota sells.


$35k would be brilliant! But I bet it's north of $40k...
In any case, if a better car came along for similar $$$ to the 86 and dents its sales to the point that the 86 is 86'd, so what, now there's a better car for the same $$$!

1. says the guy that drives a LS FD :p
2. yes, yes it does
3. not necessarily true, this isn't the same case with the 86/BRZ in the sense that Toyota owns 16% of Fuji Heavy Industries.
4. yeah your right, everyone was expecting a $18k-$20k FRS and looked what happens lol. that furthers proves an expensive 4 cyl Supra will be DOA. people will buy a cheap 370z or fork out a little more for a Corvette.

[BRZer86]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Only facts. Did you look at the referenced material or just post this remark? The material said "Supra (GT86;J29)" If Toyota were to keep the Twin 86, why would they also use that designation for the Supra? Think about it....

If you think this logic is wrong, please tell all of us your analysis....

I agree.

The more important point is the sports car segment is definitely a declining segment, so why would Toyota allocate more R&D dollars when they're coming off a 6 year engineering effort to further pass the twins' spec sheet (i.e. lower center of gravity than the twins).

The rebuttal to my statement above is, the rumors from April stating that Subaru and Toyota are moving forward with the next gen BRZ/GT86. So as long as Toyota/BMW/Subaru can keep finding partners to split the R&D bill, then we can keep expecting to see the revival of a dying breed.

#SaveTheManual

[Captain Snooze]

@Moto-P
Off topic but did you hear, even the faintest whisper, anything of the SF-R

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by HKz

eh what planet are you from? think for most people the displacement size and number of cylinders always affects a car's prestige especially if we're talking about a sports car.

How does the mere existence of a 4-cylinder model take away anything from the 6-cylinder model?

Not that "prestige" means anything to me, but yeah, the 6-cylinder will have more of that than the 4-cylinder version, so if that's important to a buyer he'll have to spend more and get the 6.

Hard to say whether BMW wants the Supra to be a big seller because from the outside looking in, this project would appear to negatively affect their brand a little bit considering their own equipment now has an economy brand stamped on it.

I don't know about that. My own view of BMW is that their cars tend to be a bit overwrought and not necessarily the most reliable. A joint venture with Toyota seems like it should lend positive connotations to BMW if you ask me. And vice versa as well. If I worked for either company I would love to have the opportunity to do a joint venture with the other.

Anyway, I believe that BMW wants this car to be a big success for Toyota and would be glad to see them sell a lot of them.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

@Moto-P
Off topic but did you hear, even the faintest whisper, anything of the SF-R

same here, im also curious about this as well.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by ZDan

How does the mere existence of a 4-cylinder model take away anything from the 6-cylinder model?

Not that "prestige" means anything to me, but yeah, the 6-cylinder will have more of that than the 4-cylinder version, so if that's important to a buyer he'll have to spend more and get the 6.

I don't know about that. My own view of BMW is that their cars tend to be a bit overwrought and not necessarily the most reliable. A joint venture with Toyota seems like it should lend positive connotations to BMW if you ask me. And vice versa as well. If I worked for either company I would love to have the opportunity to do a joint venture with the other.

Anyway, I believe that BMW wants this car to be a big success for Toyota and would be glad to see them sell a lot of them.

you're right, it doesn't necessarily take away anything from the 6 cyl but it does add a bit of contention among enthusiasts..look at the backlash the car community had when they found out the Mustang or Cayman would come with a 4 cyl..

Toyota working with BMW yes, it makes sense for the former but I don't think it really benefits BMW aside from merely making it cheaper for them to develop the next Z4. Tada has shared several stories where they were met with BMW engineers who could care less about a Toyota, let alone drive one which should tell ya something from their end. Logically, yes the reliability benefits might be a positive thing for BMW but to be fair, I think reliability is a little overrated in today's automotive age and more of a concern for economy minded shoppers, not luxury buyers..cost of replacement parts is a bigger deal now as they become more and more complex.

If they really want to sell a lot of them, I'm not sure how the 10 K mark will achieve that....meanwhile the Corvette has been selling nearly 30 K for the past 4 years in the US alone with no base 4 cyl..

[krayzie]

Modern BMW and prestige?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by gymratter

1. says the guy that drives a LS FD :p

LS adds about 50-100 lb. to the FD, more importantly allows me to drive to events wherever in the country I want with confidence!

2. yes, yes it does

Really? How?
Does the existence of a base 370hp 911 detract from the 700hp GT2 RS? Would it be better for Porsche and all of us if lesser 911s did not exist? No!

3. not necessarily true, this isn't the same case with the 86/BRZ in the sense that Toyota owns 16% of Fuji Heavy Industries.

Is BMW not building these cars for Toyota? Will they not make more money if Toyota sells more of these cars?

4. yeah your right, everyone was expecting a $18k-$20k FRS and looked what happens lol. that furthers proves an expensive 4 cyl Supra will be DOA. people will buy a cheap 370z or fork out a little more for a Corvette.

Offering a lower-priced version will sell more cars. Maybe they'll sell more 6-cylinder Supras at $55k than 4-cylinder Supras at $42k, but they will certainly sell more Supras overall by offering both.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by ZDan

LS adds about 50-100 lb. to the FD, more importantly allows me to drive to events wherever in the country I want with confidence!

Really? How?
Does the existence of a base 370hp 911 detract from the 700hp GT2 RS? Would it be better for Porsche and all of us if lesser 911s did not exist? No!

Is BMW not building these cars for Toyota? Will they not make more money if Toyota sells more of these cars?

Offering a lower-priced version will sell more cars. Maybe they'll sell more 6-cylinder Supras at $55k than 4-cylinder Supras at $42k, but they will certainly sell more Supras overall by offering both.

1. excuses, you just need to bring some extra oil :p

2. all the 911's still have the same number of cylinders. like HKz said, all those guys with V8 Mustangs look down on the 4 cylinder.

3. no they arent. both the Z4 and Supra have been outsourced to an a 3rd party at the Magna Steyr plant in Austria.

4. no you're absolutely right. again using the A80 as an example. 6,977 GTEs and 4,262 GEs = 11,239. but its a known fact that slow selling drivetrains and trim levels get dropped. also what is the cost of introducing a second drivetrain from both a marketing and R&D standpoint? over at SupraMKV, insider A70TTR has stated that the 4 cylinder prototype with the B48 was not intended for the US market. poll after poll shows that a majority of Supra enthusiast are not interested in a 4 cylinder version. i think it would just be a better idea to save a turbo 4 for a second gen 86.

i think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[HKz]

my personal concern with the 4 cyl is that it adds additional development costs to the project when that could instead be used towards developing a manual or perhaps they could save the costs altogether to bring us a lower MSRP..



..on a side note, you would think the CoG would be even better with the 4 cyl model but all the CoG boasting from Tada-san was about the 6 cyl..think they are avoiding stealing any of the 6 cyl's thunder?

[vh_supra26]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mos...18.803/page-27