follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Forced Induction

Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-12-2014, 12:00 PM   #281
gdrider77
Senior Member
 
gdrider77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 623
Thanks: 243
Thanked 263 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
This is true. But also keep in mind i am pushing the kit much further than the base kit. What i would say about the AVO kit, and pretty much any kit, is to double check all preassembled fittings...that would have solved many of my issues.

I also picked this kit because i wanted UEL header, as well as the location of the turbo.

Any and every kit can and will have issues. I believe that a very few minority will be active on the forums and speak up. I am possibly more vocal about things, as was @Sportsguy83 before he sold his avo kit. I actually know of a few other manufacturer kits, with blown engines, failed compressors(sc) and blown out turbo bearings. I have spoke to these people and even seen first hand the blown motors. they do not post on these forums and i am not trying to call out these people or the manufacturers for those that do. What i can say is that pretty much all the major players have a failed kit/car out there, just not all are known.

While mine never failed, i had a few hurdles during the install and after, that i think are normal. Not everyone documents everything, and not everyone posts pictures and stuff online. I happen to sit in front of a computer all day, with plenty of free time, so i have time to jot down my thoughts and post pictures.

I tend to post heavily as i am looking for knowledge and information, and like to document things for others to learn from. I also am an enthusiast so reading about others mistakes, problems and success helps me and inspires me with my build.

What i have noticed with the Avo kit, is that myself and @Sportsguy83 were posting the most regularly on it, and we are also the ones that seemed to be pushing it the furthest. So those that are simply bolting it on and going with the canned tune or non-aggressive tune...seems to be running well for these folks.

Paul even recommended (and now i wish i had listened to him) to get a feel for the base kit, run the stock tune for a bit before upgrading injectors, adding boost controllers, etc...unfortunately i listened to my tuner, who was never able to get things right and went forward upgrading injectors, adding boost, etc...the more i added, the more pieces that could fail.

I seem to remember on another post, something like 150 avo kits have been sold. Of those i would say it looks like 3-5 have been on these forums and vocal about the pros/cons. So i still think the Avo kit is a good buy for the money, depending on your goals. and if you like the placement and want uel. The last thing to mention, is that through this whole process, Paul has been very good at getting me replacement parts whenever anything seemed to have failed, or even just sending me a new part to replace an old part. the unfortunate thing for him, is that he gets stuck in the middle some times with waiting for the factory to get back to him, and to ship out these parts. As some saw, my warranty has since passed, but he has still helped me out with parts and such, so he does stand behind his product.
__________________
gdrider77 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to gdrider77 For This Useful Post:
1086 (02-12-2014), AVOturboworld (02-12-2014), Sportsguy83 (02-12-2014), tendogy (02-12-2014)
Old 02-12-2014, 12:37 PM   #282
tendogy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: FR-S
Location: Texas
Posts: 106
Thanks: 18
Thanked 169 Times in 45 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks for the great write-up and response!

The reality is that you and sportsguy83 are the most visible members of the AVO turbo family in the forum, and if someone reads through both your build threads they will come to the conclusion that the AVO kit has a boatload of problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdrider77 View Post
I actually know of a few other manufacturer kits, with blown engines, failed compressors(sc) and blown out turbo bearings. I have spoke to these people and even seen first hand the blown motors. they do not post on these forums and i am not trying to call out these people or the manufacturers for those that do. What i can say is that pretty much all the major players have a failed kit/car out there, just not all are known.
And that's the inherent problem we face. It's great to have a forum where we can interact together and also with people who develop these products, but it also makes people tend to keep quiet about their problems or try to minimize them so they don't ruffle any feathers.

It's important for the consumers of the community to ask tough questions like, "why the hell would gtrider recommend this kit when he has had so many issues?"

In this case, the AVO kit gets nothing but a reinforced positive review. In other cases, other kits have been revealed to be not worth the money.

Thanks again for the write-up. Balanced and honest consumer reviews are the best resource we have.
tendogy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 01:43 PM   #283
AVOturboworld
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: 2013 "AVO Orange" FR-S
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 69
Thanked 2,277 Times in 636 Posts
Mentioned: 108 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgi View Post
so quick glance would be: a good layout kit, chinese/taiwaneese made (which is not reflected in the price but which is reflected in quality issues) with average support (the support is there but if you have to take the header off your car for sanding flanges, paying for shipping back-n-forth is not worth it) ?
As mentioned several times, everything is made in our own factory in Thailand. I've even provided information on how to contact the factory. Just because other manufacturers choose to make their parts in china/taiwan doesn't mean we did.

And people usually only post on the forums when they have issues. Every automotive forum in the world makes their particular car look like a hotbed of issues because of that.
AVOturboworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 02:14 PM   #284
gdrider77
Senior Member
 
gdrider77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 623
Thanks: 243
Thanked 263 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Just to help reinforce what i was trying to say. I am not trying to bash the avo kit or any others. What i am trying to say, is that in my experience, nothing is ever plug and play and usually that simple, and that there will/can always be issues that will come up.

I bet there are many other kits out there from all manufacturers that have small exhaust leaks, or boost leaks, etc..how many people really even notice, or care? Hoe many actually go through and do leak tests, pressure test, etc..

Unless you are installing yourself and really anal about things, probably wont even notice. Or your tuner/installer is catching these things and fixing as they come across them, and maybe not even telling you about it. honestly. a loose hose clamp is probably not even something most shops would think to mention, they would just tighten it/replace it and move on.

I replaced most of my large worm drive clamps because i liked the look of the other clamps better, and i felt them to be a stronger piece and cheap upgrade. Needed? Probably not, but what i wanted, and so mentioned it in my build thread.

For the record i have never had to pay any shipping for any part that Paul has warrantied. Even this header, i have a pre-paid return shipping tag to send it back. While the inevitable issues have crept up, its something that can happen with any aftermarket part.
__________________
gdrider77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 03:20 PM   #285
AVOturboworld
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: 2013 "AVO Orange" FR-S
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 69
Thanked 2,277 Times in 636 Posts
Mentioned: 108 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgi View Post
the turbos as well? sorry, but I was sure you said they were made in china.
All turbo CHRA's are made in China, including Garrett CHRA's.

Thermal coating issues have been taken care of, we had to switch to a different coating company that has been much better. We've had issues, we've addressed them.
AVOturboworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 03:53 PM   #286
1086
Senior Member
 
1086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: UM86 - 6MT
Location: CA (elevation 85 ft.)
Posts: 518
Thanks: 383
Thanked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
@jamesm @husker741 @CSG Mike @Frs300 @CSG David @nelsmar @Sportsguy83 @King Tut

Given what these kits include for their base prices, which is the most sound to go with? Its not so much a superiority question, but more a question surrounding what can someone get the most out of since they are relatively around the same prices (and arguably, similar reliability). This is also relative to your suggestions regarding kit + supporting FI accessories.

I know a few of you have stated which one you would go with already, but given that some of these come with wideband, or gauges etc. is there one with a better value than another? Lets leave the headroom portion out of this, if possible

AVO stg1 ($4,400) > http://www.avoturboworld.com/avoshop...ual-p-191.html
JDL stg 1 ($3,349) > http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...74&postcount=1
Full Blown stg1 ($3,995) > http://fullblownmotorsports.com/full...base-turbo-kit

*last note, I do really like and appreciate @AVOturboworld write-up of the FA20 and its capabilities to handle increased power, etc. - it helped me to really understand how whoreish (positive connotation) this car can be

Quote:
If it wasn't for the fact that this FA20 motor is a completely different and modern design with an incredibly well made combustion chamber, we wouldn't even attempt to turbocharge these cars. But while many people associate it with the old EJ20 series motors from Subaru, there is absolutely no comparison besides the fact they are both boxer 4's made by Subaru. The entire design of the engine is different, especially the combustion chamber, which has been improved tremendously from anything previously made by Subaru. Not only is the engine a major step up, the ECU on this car is also a great design, reacting incredibly fast to knock and adjusting parameters to compensate. This helps increase the reliability of the turbocharged motor. As is well known by now, this is also a direct injection motor, helping both power and gas mileage. We've seen mpg figures as good as stock on the freeway, probably better than stock as we were not exactly sitting on cruise control during our testing!

Last edited by 1086; 02-12-2014 at 04:27 PM.
1086 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 1086 For This Useful Post:
JDsThatGuy (04-15-2015)
Old 02-12-2014, 04:16 PM   #287
King Tut
NASA SpecE30 Racer
 
King Tut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2006 Honda S2000
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 7,279
Thanks: 607
Thanked 5,759 Times in 3,055 Posts
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 10 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to King Tut
Damn. Brandon gets a mention, and I don't. I would have a hard time choosing between the JDL and the Full Blown, but I would still probably go back to LJ @FullBlown.
__________________
King Tut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to King Tut For This Useful Post:
1086 (02-12-2014)
Old 02-14-2014, 04:46 PM   #288
1086
Senior Member
 
1086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: UM86 - 6MT
Location: CA (elevation 85 ft.)
Posts: 518
Thanks: 383
Thanked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
The Kraftweks and Jackson Racing kits are very similar, other than the placement of the S/C, which is more off to the right on the Kraftwerks. Between these two what is the best value considering everything that is included in each kit? Also, does it matter the placement considering it is not much of a difference? Both using Rotrex right?
1086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 04:53 PM   #289
*LongFella
Senior Member
 
*LongFella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: 2014 Scion FR-S|Whiteout
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 1,006
Thanks: 502
Thanked 478 Times in 313 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Forced Induction Buyer's Guide | $5,000 +/- (otd) | Daily Driver Spec

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1086 View Post
The Kraftweks and Jackson Racing kits are very similar, other than the placement of the S/C, which is more off to the right on the Kraftwerks. Between these two what is the best value considering everything that is included in each kit?

JR Kit is CARB Approved (if that makes a difference) and uses a single belt (I believe). The CARB approval is what's leaning me towards the JR kit. It will be a nice sticker to have. We recently had an "Emission Check-Up" around the corner from my house in Irvine. Granted, those are volunteer only (from what I'm told) but if I had an SC kit and no CARB sticker... it would be an expensive ticket!

Kraftworks isn't CARB approved yet and uses a separate toothed belt drive in addition to your stock belt system...
__________________
My 2014 FRS build thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52071

“You might be poor, your shoes might be broken, but your mind is a palace.” - Frank McCourt
*LongFella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 04:55 PM   #290
1086
Senior Member
 
1086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: UM86 - 6MT
Location: CA (elevation 85 ft.)
Posts: 518
Thanks: 383
Thanked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So is belt snapping/replacing more likely to possibly occur with the Kraftwerks? CARB is a nice perk, especially since CA is the gestapo when it comes to traffic laws lol
1086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 05:00 PM   #291
*LongFella
Senior Member
 
*LongFella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: 2014 Scion FR-S|Whiteout
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 1,006
Thanks: 502
Thanked 478 Times in 313 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1086 View Post
So is belt snapping/replacing more likely to possibly occur with the Kraftwerks? CARB is a nice perk, especially since CA is the gestapo when it comes to traffic laws lol

In all my research, I don't think I've seen a post about a belt snapping on either JR or Kraftworks kit...

Regardless, once I move to the FI realm... I'll carry an extra belt in the trunk regardless of what SC kit I pick...
__________________
My 2014 FRS build thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52071

“You might be poor, your shoes might be broken, but your mind is a palace.” - Frank McCourt
*LongFella is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to *LongFella For This Useful Post:
1086 (02-14-2014)
Old 02-14-2014, 05:10 PM   #292
*LongFella
Senior Member
 
*LongFella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: 2014 Scion FR-S|Whiteout
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 1,006
Thanks: 502
Thanked 478 Times in 313 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
The CARB sticker is a huge plus for us CA folks trying to avoid hefty fines...

My plan is to install the JR CARB Legal Kit. Enjoy it for a few months and then get a custom E85 tune I can switch to when I want a little more hp/tq. I've got an E85 station down the street from work which makes it a nice little perk if I'm feeling perky
__________________
My 2014 FRS build thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52071

“You might be poor, your shoes might be broken, but your mind is a palace.” - Frank McCourt
*LongFella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 06:04 PM   #293
cdrazic93
Junior
 
cdrazic93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: a car
Location: Probably at school
Posts: 4,341
Thanks: 3,184
Thanked 2,512 Times in 1,502 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1086 View Post
I keep going back and forth between TC and SC like im sure 90% of you. ITS SO FRUSTRATINGGGG haha aaaaahhhh
Better to have options, than not!!
__________________
"Ah! What music! They could have never imagined, those pioneers who invented the automobile, that it would posses us like this, our imaginations, our dreams. Men love women, but even more than that, men love CARS!"-Lord Hesketh
cdrazic93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 06:23 PM   #294
1086
Senior Member
 
1086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: UM86 - 6MT
Location: CA (elevation 85 ft.)
Posts: 518
Thanks: 383
Thanked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Wise words my fellow 86er
1086 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FT86 Buyer's Guide! FRS vs. BRZ Differences Detailed! [Video + High Res. Stills] Rosso_Corsa Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 23 11-03-2013 04:10 PM
First time buyer - help! chotemaamu Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 27 02-27-2013 12:21 PM
FRS as a Daily Driver? Pake1 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 104 08-15-2012 11:48 PM
Will the BRZ be your daily driver WRXGuy1 BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics 47 05-23-2012 12:15 PM
The daily driver KiingDavid CANADA 25 02-06-2012 01:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.