Sebring murdered my brakes

[blatantanomaly]

Thank you to everyone that took the time to respond. I didn't know how obscenely hot some brake pads could withstand until you sent me searching. I'll be looking into something like Carbotech XP24 on dedicated rotors with some cooling shims to save the calipers for my next track day. That's probably overkill, but it would be nice to never have to deal with this problem again while I'm at stock power and on DOT tires just trying to learn how to drive better. I'm always open to hearing advice of more experienced people so feel free to voice an opinion. Thanks again.

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by blatantanomaly

Thank you to everyone that took the time to respond. I didn't know how obscenely hot some brake pads could withstand until you sent me searching. I'll be looking into something like Carbotech XP24 on dedicated rotors with some cooling shims to save the calipers for my next track day. That's probably overkill, but it would be nice to never have to deal with this problem again while I'm at stock power and on DOT tires just trying to learn how to drive better. I'm always open to hearing advice of more experienced people so feel free to voice an opinion. Thanks again.

This is where brake setups can get pretty misleading. You'll have to really dig deep down to identify your goals, budget, and scope of what your plans are. Once you figure these out, it'll be an easy way to dial in exactly what you need and more.

[blatantanomaly]

Originally Posted by CounterSpace Garage

This is where brake setups can get pretty misleading. You'll have to really dig deep down to identify your goals, budget, and scope of what your plans are. Once you figure these out, it'll be an easy way to dial in exactly what you need and more.

I just want to be able to beat on it all day at HPDE and Auto-x events a few times per year. If a set of pads last long but don't bite quite as hard and I have to brake earlier, that'll just be what it is. I'm even considering going to crappier tires for track days because my goal really is to just learn and I'd rather flirt with the limits at 50 MPH than discover them at 90 MPH and be in way over my head. Sure, I shoot for lap times but that's just to have an objective goal.

I won't be adding power anytime soon because I don't expect the stock engine or transmission to hold up to that especially at Sebring.

My budget isn't so much what I can afford as it is what makes sense. I get that the AP Racing kit would be more economical in the long run, but I'm not really ready to commit to doing this for long enough for that. I'm sure I'll keep playing with cars but Spec Miata has been on my mind as a simple way to go wheel-to-wheel racing since I went to my second track day and wanted to dive up the inside of someone who wouldn't point me by.

Any thoughts on this?

[EB86]

"I'd rather flirt with the limits at 50 MPH than discover them at 90 MPH"

[norcalpb]

May not be what you need but I've loved my rooduct brake ducts.



https://rooducts.com/rooduct-interme...trol-arm-duct/

They also have fans like you initially mentioned. I believe NASCAR cup cars used to use these type of fans.



https://rooducts.com/new-universal-f...-frs-fan-duct/

[gatorac]

Originally Posted by blatantanomaly

Makes sense. I was definitely pushing myself and my car as hard as I could, as evidenced by a couple of off-road excursions. I'm sure the AP kit would solve my problems, but I want to make sure that I actually need them before dropping a few grand on it. Thank you for the input

My first BRZ I put 45k miles on in 2 years. I did 75+ track days on it from COTA, WGI, Road America, HMS, Mid Ohio, Palmer, VIR, Barber, Road Atlanta, NCM, PittRace. Oh yeah, and Sebring. Sebring is my home track and I literally have 1,000's of laps there. I used the OEM brakes for awhile. They are "ok" if you are happy just driving around. I find I am not enjoying my track time unless I am pushing the limits of the car and myself. I need to feel the car moving around under me in a corner. Sure, you could put some super secret special pads on the factory brakes and get by. But the fact that you have already hit the limits of DS1.11 tells me you won't likely be satisfied with that for long.

I paid the $2100 for the Essex AP kit. They put my BRZ in the top 4 of brake performance and feel out of all of the cars I've driven. Top 3= Porsche GT2RS Clubsport, Porsche GT4 Clubsport, Panoz GTRA. The AP kit is that good. When I was done flogging my BRZ I pulled all the performance parts off and sold it to Carmax. I got $1700 for the AP kit when I sold it to another enthusiast. $400 plus consumables was well worth it to me.

You could always try some different pads. If they don't perform, you are not getting full value for the money you spent on the track event. I don't have anything to sell you but more track time.

Maybe I'll see you at Sebring soon. I'm there every month. Sometimes twice a month.

[blatantanomaly]

Originally Posted by gatorac

My first BRZ I put 45k miles on in 2 years. I did 75+ track days on it from COTA, WGI, Road America, HMS, Mid Ohio, Palmer, VIR, Barber, Road Atlanta, NCM, PittRace. Oh yeah, and Sebring. Sebring is my home track and I literally have 1,000's of laps there. I used the OEM brakes for awhile. They are "ok" if you are happy just driving around. I find I am not enjoying my track time unless I am pushing the limits of the car and myself. I need to feel the car moving around under me in a corner. Sure, you could put some super secret special pads on the factory brakes and get by. But the fact that you have already hit the limits of DS1.11 tells me you won't likely be satisfied with that for long.



I paid the $2100 for the Essex AP kit. They put my BRZ in the top 4 of brake performance and feel out of all of the cars I've driven. Top 3= Porsche GT2RS Clubsport, Porsche GT4 Clubsport, Panoz GTRA. The AP kit is that good. When I was done flogging my BRZ I pulled all the performance parts off and sold it to Carmax. I got $1700 for the AP kit when I sold it to another enthusiast. $400 plus consumables was well worth it to me.



You could always try some different pads. If they don't perform, you are not getting full value for the money you spent on the track event. I don't have anything to sell you but more track time.



Maybe I'll see you at Sebring soon. I'm there every month. Sometimes twice a month.

Nice. I'm happy to hear about the resale value. That definitely helps me justify the purchase to myself

And I'm definitely down to hang out at the track. I've been going with Performance Driving Group so I was out there on the 9th. Hit me up when you're going. I might sit the summer out though because it gets stupid hot

[ls1ac]

Just a thought, when we first got the BRZ we took it to the track to find what it could do. We found that the stock front brakes could not handle the heat at the track. We had the rotors cherry red and the pads smeared. Two times and we went to big brakes in the front. Problem solved.

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by blatantanomaly

I just want to be able to beat on it all day at HPDE and Auto-x events a few times per year. If a set of pads last long but don't bite quite as hard and I have to brake earlier, that'll just be what it is. I'm even considering going to crappier tires for track days because my goal really is to just learn and I'd rather flirt with the limits at 50 MPH than discover them at 90 MPH and be in way over my head. Sure, I shoot for lap times but that's just to have an objective goal.

I won't be adding power anytime soon because I don't expect the stock engine or transmission to hold up to that especially at Sebring.

My budget isn't so much what I can afford as it is what makes sense. I get that the AP Racing kit would be more economical in the long run, but I'm not really ready to commit to doing this for long enough for that. I'm sure I'll keep playing with cars but Spec Miata has been on my mind as a simple way to go wheel-to-wheel racing since I went to my second track day and wanted to dive up the inside of someone who wouldn't point me by.

Any thoughts on this?

Proper brake pads and fluid will be a good solution. With any sort of BBK, you will always be limited by the brake pad and fluid as well. So really at this point is this -

1. Proper pad compounds & best brake fluid
2. BBK + proper pad compounds & best brake fluid

More importantly, Sebring is pretty raw doggy on the brake pads. You'll want a brake setup that can respond in the same manner.

[randyzimmer]

[QUOTE=norcalpb;3423422]May not be what you need but I've loved my rooduct brake ducts.

https://rooducts.com/rooduct-interme...trol-arm-duct/

Thanks!

I can't understand how people will blindly buy big brake kits and put their travel/tire/entry budgets at risk but don't consider cooling. It's pretty cheap.

Most people I've talked to at the track say they have no brake heat problems with the Twins. Right before the tow truck goes out to get them. Oh well. rz

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by blatantanomaly

Thank you to everyone that took the time to respond. I didn't know how obscenely hot some brake pads could withstand until you sent me searching. I'll be looking into something like Carbotech XP24 on dedicated rotors with some cooling shims to save the calipers for my next track day. That's probably overkill, but it would be nice to never have to deal with this problem again while I'm at stock power and on DOT tires just trying to learn how to drive better. I'm always open to hearing advice of more experienced people so feel free to voice an opinion. Thanks again.

WOW XP24's damn those pads will be murder on rotors.

[CounterSpace Garage]

[QUOTE=randyzimmer;3423798]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

May not be what you need but I've loved my rooduct brake ducts.

https://rooducts.com/rooduct-interme...trol-arm-duct/

Thanks!

I can't understand how people will blindly buy big brake kits and put their travel/tire/entry budgets at risk but don't consider cooling. It's pretty cheap.

Most people I've talked to at the track say they have no brake heat problems with the Twins. Right before the tow truck goes out to get them. Oh well. rz

There's a time and place for ducting. Currently the OP has ducting, which is a form of forced convection into the brake system at speed. To put it plain and simple, a proper application brake pad is the solution to satisfy the needs for Sebring. And yes, BBK isn't always the solution.

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

WOW XP24's damn those pads will be murder on rotors.

XP24s have a time and place. This is not the time and place.

[blatantanomaly]

Originally Posted by CounterSpace Garage

XP24s have a time and place. This is not the time and place.

Until my inevitable AP kit, would you be comfortable suggesting a pad to start with for the stock 292 mm brake setup? I just threw XP24 out there because of the ridiculously high temperatures they're rated for but I don't doubt I'd have a hard time keeping them above their minimum temp. If at all possible, I'd like to pair them with my current Ferodo DS1.11 rear pads to save a few bucks until they wear out but it's alright if I can't. You carry a toooon of options and I'm definitely out of my depth here so I'd just be taking a shot in the dark. Thanks again for taking time from your general badassery to help out a noob lol.

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by blatantanomaly

Until my inevitable AP kit, would you be comfortable suggesting a pad to start with for the stock 292 mm brake setup? I just threw XP24 out there because of the ridiculously high temperatures they're rated for but I don't doubt I'd have a hard time keeping them above their minimum temp. If at all possible, I'd like to pair them with my current Ferodo DS1.11 rear pads to save a few bucks until they wear out but it's alright if I can't. You carry a toooon of options and I'm definitely out of my depth here so I'd just be taking a shot in the dark. Thanks again for taking time from your general badassery to help out a noob lol.

To be fair, CSG C2 would actually solve your problems and it would eliminate the need for ducting altogether. At this point in time, it's a matter of what you desire and what your goals are. With that said, if you're looking forward to a new setup, let us know. You don't necessarily need to go to a BBK to accomplish a full trackday without failure!