Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[grumpysnapper]

Had an interesting but short chat with someone who knows about the new version of the supercharger for the FA24.

They are very excited about the new version, but apparently it is still in the pre (metal) casting stage, and has not yet been tested on an engine. However, this is not too far away.

There will be little to no interchangeability (of the main castings) between the FA20 version and the FA24 version. The inference was that it would not be worth trying to convert an older FA20 version to a new version by purchasing newer parts.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Had an interesting but short chat with someone who knows about the new version of the supercharger for the FA24.

They are very excited about the new version, but apparently it is still in the pre (metal) casting stage, and has not yet been tested on an engine. However, this is not too far away.

There will be little to no interchangeability (of the main castings) between the FA20 version and the FA24 version. The inference was that it would not be worth trying to convert an older FA20 version to a new version by purchasing newer parts.

Hopefully the production timeline is faster than in the past. I have my eye on the gen 2 car with a Harrop supercharger someday.

I'm trying to decrypt what you meant in your last paragraph. Are you trying to suggest the new supercharger won't be the old supercharger top with unique runners for the FA20 and FA24, such that someone could take their old/1st gen supercharger and have the legs machined off in order to make the old supercharger work with the new legs or something, so they could transfer their old supercharger from their FA20 to their new FA24? I doubt you meant they are switching to the TVS 1740 from the 1320, and you were talking about to upgrade blowers or something. The TVS 1320 is on our Audi Q5 3.0T, and it is recommended for 3.0-4.5L applications, but I could see them going with a bigger blower too in order to accommodate more power.

I would be surprised if Edelbrock comes out with a different looking top to their supercharger considering they built their runners to be separate in advance.

[YCK]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Thats pretty warm, what intake do you have on it (pre filter)?
Were you out at Willowbank, and do you know what the actual temps were on the track?

I have the stock airbox with the HKS short snorkel.

Yes it was at QR. I didn't log the ambient temp logged at the time. I'll get some fresh track log in a couple of weeks.

Driving around town or highway speed my intake air temperature is at 20C above ambient temperature

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Hopefully the production timeline is faster than in the past. I have my eye on the gen 2 car with a Harrop supercharger someday.

I'm trying to decrypt what you meant in your last paragraph. Are you trying to suggest the new supercharger won't be the old supercharger top with unique runners for the FA20 and FA24, such that someone could take their old/1st gen supercharger and have the legs machined off in order to make the old supercharger work with the new legs or something, so they could transfer their old supercharger from their FA20 to their new FA24? I doubt you meant they are switching to the TVS 1740 from the 1320, and you were talking about to upgrade blowers or something. The TVS 1320 is on our Audi Q5 3.0T, and it is recommended for 3.0-4.5L applications, but I could see them going with a bigger blower too in order to accommodate more power.

Yeah, I just asked was if he thought there was any realistic chance of being able to upgrade the older system, and he said no, you would be far better off selling the old system and upgrading.... it just wouldnt be worth the time or effort...if it was even possible.
In other words it is not being built with any consideration for the old unit to be forwards compatible.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Yeah, I just asked was if he thought there was any realistic chance of being able to upgrade the older system, and he said no, you would be far better off selling the old system and upgrading.... it just wouldnt be worth the time or effort...if it was even possible.
In other words it is not being built with any consideration for the old unit to be forwards compatible.

I'm not surprised. There isn't much way unless the TVS unit and heat exchangers and cone was going to be exchangeable, but the large casting is where a bulk of the money. I agree that just selling the old one and buying the new one would be best, even if they accommodated the internals.

[YCK]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Thats pretty warm, what intake do you have on it (pre filter)?
Were you out at Willowbank, and do you know what the actual temps were on the track?

Quick question I am hoping you can help me with. First thing in the morning, before you start the car, what is your IAT reading?

Looking at it through my Ecutek Dashboard, my IAT is 5C higher than ambient temperature on a cold car.

Does your IAT reads higher or the same as ambient when your car is cold?

[tomm.brz]

Has the Harrop a TMAP? Anyway if you have a custom map, you can ask your tuner to modify the intake air sensor scaling in the tune to match the 5C offset and you have a more reliable reading

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Has the Harrop a TMAP? Anyway if you have a custom map, you can ask your tuner to modify the intake air sensor scaling in the tune to match the 5C offset and you have a more reliable reading

The MAP and IAT sensors are separate on the Harrop, and Harrop supplies their own IAT sensor.


Here's something to consider:
Is the IAT sensor off, or is the ambient temperature sensor off? (the ambient temperature sensor being whatever is being used to check the temperature of the air surrounding the car in the morning.)

The way to check would be to use an ice water bath on the ambient temp sensor. The result should be 0 deg. Celcius or 32 deg F. If that sensor is right on, the IAT is probably off and needs rescaling. I haven't pulled the IAT sensor out of my Harrop to see it's design so I couldn't say one way or the other if it's able to be submerged in water in order to check its accuracy, but if it's completely sealed, it can be checked the same way.

I have the CARB tune file that Harrop supplies, but I've not checked to see if it can be opened and the IAT scaling checked. If anyone wants to know, I can certainly try and find out.

Edit: I got curious on this myself so I attempted to open Harrop's CARB tune and it is locked. However....

I also have a copy of Harrop's non-CARB tune which is NOT locked and I can see the parameters as:

IAT Sensor Voltage Min = 0.40
IAT Sensor Voltage Max = 4.71
Scaling at -40 deg. C = 4.736 Volts
Scaling at +120 deg. C = 0.205 Volts

Edit #2: Fixed the mistake where I had the Min and Max values transposed, and adding the note that all of these values are identical to our stock IAT sensor parameters. One other note, the Min and Max voltage parameters define the threshold values where the DTC P0112 and DTC P0113 will activate respectively.

Hope this helps.

[FR-S2GT86]

Anybody ever have issues trying to loosen the 5mm Allen head screws from the pulley hub? Mine don't seem to want to budge. Maybe Harrop used some LocTite on the threads? I'm afraid I might break an Allen key or worse, strip the hex head out on the screw. I'm thinking I might have to upgrade from an Allen key to a hex socket to get more torque on it, but I wanted to get some advice here first from someone that has changed one out already.

[FR-S2GT86]

Follow-up from previous post:

Yes, I needed to step up to a 5mm hex bit socket, 3/8" drive, and yes, Harrop uses the blue LocTite on the threads. Had to run to the local hardware store to pick up both but the pulley change-out job is now complete.

[tomm.brz]

Can you paste here the harrop tune? curious what cam timing they run)

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by YCK

Quick question I am hoping you can help me with. First thing in the morning, before you start the car, what is your IAT reading?

Looking at it through my Ecutek Dashboard, my IAT is 5C higher than ambient temperature on a cold car.

Does your IAT reads higher or the same as ambient when your car is cold?

You know I dont know ....I'm on a Motec, I'll check with the engine guy when I get out to him next time. (Its due for a little tuning clean up, as its idling is a little inconsistant at the moment).

Obviously one reading is out somehow...

Is it all going well aside from that?

Now we're coming into cooler weather, your car should feel super strong!

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Follow-up from previous post:

Yes, I needed to step up to a 5mm hex bit socket, 3/8" drive, and yes, Harrop uses the blue LocTite on the threads. Had to run to the local hardware store to pick up both but the pulley change-out job is now complete.

Did you go down in pulley size?

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Did you go down in pulley size?

Yes, swapped to the 85mm pulley. Currently logging and getting calibrations sent back to me by my tuner.